I've seen a number of conflicting opinions on the necessity of ohashori.  I have been told that ohashori isn't necessary for informal kimono, but is necessary for anything formal enough to have a crest.  Others have said that an ohashori isn't required if you're simply too tall for it ("ohashori are for short people", and others still consider the need for one to be outdated.

What constitutes the 'necessity' of an ohashori?  Are we talking a social faux pas on the level of folding a kimono right-over-left, or is it 'wrong' in the sense that everything about kimono has become obnoxiously structured within very recent history?  I face a number of difficulties fitting kimono to my body, and as it stands now, the only kimono I have that I can fold into a decent ohashori is my kakeshita.  I'm not able to sew any ohashori into my kimono because of my kimono fashion shows, and the fact they'll have to be put on a different person every other month.

There will be people on this forum who can answer this better than I can. However, I can give you my opinion. I think the ohashori really balances out a kimono look. I think it looks much neater and smoother with an ohashori. I don't think it's critical when wearing yukata or wool kimono, but I think it's a must for more formal kimono. There are certainly tricks of disguising the lack of ohashori such as using a shigoki obi tied at the bottom of the obi.

According to my sensei, ohashori is a necessity for formal kimono - unless there just is no other way around it (i.e. you're waaaay too tall). However, her solution for that, is to buy kimono that fit you - to get them specially made. Not so practical for the broke Westerner, I know, but in Japan, I think it would be essential to own at least one formal kimono that you can wear with ohashori, even if you'd have to get it specially made, if you were at all serious about kimono. I think it's a bit of a faux pas in Japan, but I don't know if it's on par with the right over left mistake.

Keep in mind that sensei is fairly strict, as that's how Sodo Kimono is, but she also bends rules if she has to develop a style.

Outside of Japan, I wouldn't worry too much. Most people are forgiving when they see that you're well over the Japanese average height and obviously can't buy kimono as easily to fit properly, and you're not as likely to go to the very formal events that would require the utmost in formal kimono wear.

If it's casual - komon, maybe tsukesage - I wouldn't worry at all, really. Ok, let me clarify - if it's vintage, I wouldn't worry. However, if I were buying a modern kimono, I'd definitely try to have one in my size, as everyone knows vintage is a bit smaller.  

But if I were attending a formal event (um, there's very few that would require the utmost informality these days - especially outside of Japan), I'd try to find a large formal kimono to wear. If not, I'd wear formal without ohashori, if I didn't have time or the skills to extend a kimono with a few inches of fabric in the middle (like making a kimono into a hikizuri), and try to mask it if possible (shigoki obi, angling the obi when wrapping, etc).

I guess the short version is that if you don't have one that fits, wear it without ohashori. Otherwise, alter one by adding fabric, or get one specially made.

Places I would wear ohashori - tea ceremony, weddings, awards ceremonies in which Japanese people are present (events other people would wear suits and gowns to).

I just went and reread your post - by sewing in ohashori, did you mean stitching it in place so it stays, or the adding fabric idea? Assuming your models aren't super short, you should be able to hide the added fabric with the obi, as the length would come up from below that point, not above it.

Personally, I feel that all efforts should be made to have ohashori with formal kimono. I don't really have an opinion one way or another for casual outfits, but I do feel it's a necessity for formal wear. As Shigatsuhana said, it helps balance the look, and is part of proper modern kitsuke. Could be because of my training, though, having been instructed in a formal school style.

I've never studied kitsuke formally, but from what I have gleaned:

The need for ohashouri is one of those things that's kind of useless in modern kimono, but became standardized during the 20th century.  So, as you say, one of those obnoxious things about modern kitsuke.  It's like an evolutionary leftover -- we don't really need it now, because the kimono is never worn trailing, but there hasn't been a reason for it to go away yet. (And it does have the advantage of allowing a kimono to be adjusted to different wearers, so it's not totally unnecessary.  And as everyone has already said, modern kitsuke is designed with ohashouri in mind as a part of the overall look, so the presence of one is visually balancing.  If you go without one, it's good to compensate for it somehow.)

In general, I definitely don't think that it's a faux-pas on par with crossing the kimono the wrong way.  I feel like these days, kitsuke is becoming more and more flexible, and more and more people revive kimono into a living fashion.  For example, in one of the blogs that's linked in the big blog thread, there's one young lady who wears all of her kimono without ohashouri.  She has a pretty modern style, and as far as I can tell, most of her kimono are new.  Why doesn't she use ohashouri?  I don't know. But she works for a kimono store, so we can assume she has an informed position on it, and we can also assume that at least some of her kimono are made to measure.

So for every-day kind of wear, I don't think going without ohashouri is really a faux pas at all.  As long as it's clear that you know how to dress yourself, it will look like a conscious decision and not an oversight.  And, also as others have mentioned, the resurgence of antique kimono has loosened the rules a little, since many people are quite tall by comparison.

Because kitsuke is so rigid and codified, I think that basically, the more formal (read: the more conservative) the occasion, the more essential it is to have an ohashouri.  Like Iyolin says, if you have a hard time finding pre-made kimono that fit, then for your formal wear, convention dictates that you'll just have to have a kimono made.

Sort of like how, in modern western dress, you can wear boots or sneakers with a dress and not look at all out of place, but if you show up to your wedding or to the Oscars wearing a gown with chucks or Timberland boots, you're going to look really weird.

How tall are you?

I am 5' 9" and can squeeze and ohashori out of a 163cm kimono but barely. At 160cm. I am out of luck. I have added the fabric at the waist, it was fairly easy, but I know how to sew. I have also used the shigoki obi. and other times, just no ohashori....even to my tea class. no one seams to mind. but I will say...kimono just will not sit right without at least some ohashori, usually in the back, even if it is not visible after placing on your obi.

Not the most attractive picture, but...no ohashori

I consulted the more educated: when we see pictures with well-done kitsuke but no ohashori, it might mean it was omitted because the kimono blogger might be a kimono seller, and doesn't have time to dress herself for promo pics as well as she would like to, and therefore the kimono is not well donned but worn just to show off the garments.

(We might compare this to mannequins having a tie just thrown over one shoulder in the shop window or a model with the tie untied - which aren't the correct ways to wear the garments, but for display it is just fine:)


In the kimono store person's mind ohashori has become firmly established in modern kitsuke, so without no reason, it shouldn't be left out. But this is only one opinion.

Yeah, and in the Good Old Days, the obi went UNDERNEATH. Like so:
http://www.wodefordhall.com/dg003small.jpg

The ohashori is also helpful if your kimono was tailored for someone with narrower hips than yours, or if you've gained a few inches there since it was made for you.

[scratches head, trying to figure out how to explain why I think this is so]

Viewed from the rear, one of the key kitsuke musts is to have the center back seam centered on your back. Viewed from the front, one of the key kitsuke musts is for the visible okumi edge (the kimono's left okumi, wrapped over to your right side) to fall straight from your right hip.

In a kimono that's too small around the hips, you have to pull the left okumi around farther. Since kimono don't come in spandex (I hope), the entire kimono has to shift around clockwise. The center seam is now off-center, further toward your left shoulderblade than it should be.

You can't center that seam below the hips, so you have to settle for centering it above the hips (which is where bebemochi and my dance teacher assure me it counts). And you need to even things up somehow by the time you get to the collar anyway, or you'll have more trouble with that. Making two parallel straight lines connect up requires something curved or diagonal somewhere--preferably hidden from view.

If you have enough length, you use two himo to make a secured fold, the ohashori. The first himo you tie holds the skirts of the kimono in place where they're meant to be, okumi falling directly from the right hip. The second himo you tie holds the blouse of the kimono in place with the center back seam centered.

In other words, the diagonal bit happens on the underside of the ohashori.

I'm not saying that's the reason the ohashori exists--and there are certainly workarounds--just that it certainly comes in handy in this particular circumstance.

--Bai "particular circumference, too" Mianxi

Ohashori, the vestigial organ of kitsuke...

I'm of the school of thought that it's not necessary.  If you're going for the most traditional or absolutist kistuke then go for it, but I would never look at someone without an ohashori and think her kitsuke was weak if the kimono fits well otherwise.  Or even if the kimono did not seem to fit well, if she's confident in it without ohashori, more power to her!  If you're going by the look, it's like saying a woman in formalwear is not complete if she doesn't have earrings.  If you're going by functionality, it's like the idea that you have to wear a slip with a dress or skirt.  Sometimes you just don't need 'em.

I second Iyolin - no problems to go without if it is vintage.  Same goes for informal 1970s & earlier kimono - not as vintage as early Showa, but still vintage.  If making from new, do all you can to get the length.

Vintage being the keyword for me.  If it is more recent, e.g. second hand Heisei, there's a risk it will look just secondhand if it doesn't fit passably, i.e. rather than looking retro, it will look a bit last season.  IMHO...

For example, I'd feel happy enough wearing 1950s meisen to an informal event, even with my friends in Japan, without ohashori, provided it was wide enough to overlap fairly decently ( that means I either have to remake it or have very little choice of kimono!) But I wouldn't wear a more modern kimono without ohashori in Japan.

AnnaMayBelle, you could do the sewn ohashori as and when you plan to wear the kimono yourself.  Since it is really only tacking, you could take it out easily if you need to for a show, or reserve that kimono for someone approx your height.  Right now, I'm trying to separate out all the kimono I might wear from my main showing kimono, so I don't spend time altering anything I don't need to.

I don't think lack of ohashori could ever equate to the right over left faux pas.  

I've been wondering about shigoki obi to hide a lack of ohashori. Inspired by some beeeyootiful ones in the latest Kimono Hime, which features wedding ensembles (plus other special event outfits like coming-of-age and shichigosan), I want to search some out.

Can anyone post the kanji for 'shigoki obi'? thank you!!  :lovelove

I'm not seeing a kanji for shigoki at a quick look - shigoku appears to be a verb for drawing through the hand, in which case my dictionary gives it in hiragana.

ãÂ

Actually ãÂ

mojuko and lilitufire, thank you!! that's just what I needed to get started  :D the long red one looks gorgeous, too! <drool>

edit: OMG! I just ran 'å­Â

[quote="seoulstar74"]edit: OMG! I just ran 'å­Â

This thread had me scratching my head as to why taller women than me could make ohashori with shorter kimono than me... I finally figured out that I was making my initial tie too high on my body, and it had to be made lower.  After an hour of fumbling around in front of a mirror and realizing I couldn't keep my bottom hem straight if I tried to tie it any lower, I was struck with inspiration.

My new method of donning a kimono requires four koshihimo and a clip.  First off, I clip the collar to my underkimono's collar in the back.  Next, I put on my kimono and adjust it until the bottom hem falls at just the right spot, then I tie a koshihimo around the widest part of my hips just to keep anything from slipping around.  At this point, movement is incredibly difficult so I had better not need to walk anywhere.  On the other hand, it is a great 'kimono shuffle' trainer.

After that, I adjust the front of my collar and tie a koshihimo over my bust to make sure that stays exactly where I want it.  I then have a huge poofy mass of fabric around my waist... I straighten it out, find the lowest point that I can tie my first waist koshihimo, make sure the fabric is all smooth between my hip-koshihimo and my first waist-koshihimo, from there, I can fold my ohashori over, make a second koshihimo on top of that to hold it in place, then (hopefully) remove the hip and bust koshihimo without anything sliding out of place.  Tadaa! I managed to make it work with one of my yukata, which is admittedly longer than much of the rest of my collection, but I plan to continue practicing it today.  I have the unfortunate condition of having much wider hips than my waist, so how low I can place the initial waist-koshihimo is limited... It tends to want to slide up to thinner parts if I tie it snug enough to hold the fabric.

I wish I had taken a photo, but I barely got it on before my ride arrived, and I wore it out to lunch, a meeting, dinner, and then walking all over a strip mall, and getting in and out of a car eight times over the course of the day, so when I got home, it was sliiiightly wrinkled up.

Jumping in to the fray:

I believe I heard somewhere, or read somewhere (and I could be completely off base on this, or have mis-remembered it) that one of the reasons for the ohashori was that it allows the top and bottom halves of the outfit to move independently.

The ohashori works as a buffer zone, so that any movements that affect, say the top half of the outfit, won't necessarily pull the bottom half out of alignment.

Granted, we slap a giant obi over top and cinch it down tight, so perhaps that argument goes right out the window...

AnnaMayBelle, I just bought a new kitsuke book, that uses the skeleton as a reference to "setting" the kimono correctly on the body.  The author recommends tying the first koshihimo low, across the hip bones (the ones you can feel at the front).

I find if I do this I can squeeze a lot more length out of the vintage kimono (I am 5'8" so would usually be shopping for a 166 cm or so, but I can wear a 155 fairly easily)

I think it also makes more sense if you think of your lower half as a cylinder. You can keep your wrapping much neater, if your tie is set as close to the widest possible point in the cylinder.  If you cinch around the narrowest point (your waist), there is a tendency for the overlap to start to splay out as you have created a cone from the narrowest point (waist) over the wider points (hips, usually)

I definately agree with that, but tying a himo low on the hips is difficult if you're really curvy. I've noticed that even though I'm short, long kimono tend to look shorter because my himo slips so far up my waist. I guess repeated tugging throughout the day is the only thing that would keep the ohashori down?

Yes Songbird, I know what you mean!

Also, if the himo is tied really low, the ohashori tends to rise and show the himo easily  :unsure: Of course I already use a very narrow ribbon, in a colour similar to the kimono, as a himo; but if the ohashori is narrow enough, it can even happen that the fold gets "lost" altogether and it looks more like you have a "belt" (the himo) tied at hip level, rather than an actual ohashori fold. That's why I'm planning to make a sewn ohashori to my shortest kimono. I did also consider a kimono hime style where I'd use a black velvet ribbon as the himo and actually let its ends hang visible from the ohashori downwards...maybe even with beads sewn to the ends or something...as then it would look intentional, but still solve the problem of "too short for ohashori, too long to go without". But, of course, the uses for that technique are limited.

I'm with Iyolin on this one.

I've seen the absence of ohashori in quite a few kimono fashion magazines and online blogs.  Some of the blogs are by regular Japanese women who enjoy wearing kimono, some are fashion blogs.

This blog, in particular, has quite a few photos that look like fashion shots with no ohashori:





Another Photo, and another, and yet another

I've worn kimono into JapanTown without ohashori and didn't receive any "OMG what did you do?!?" comments.  In fact, those whom I spoke with highly complimented me, despite that I was trying to apologize profusely for the lack of ohashori due to the shortness of the vintage kimono.  They were very impressed with my kitsuke and happy to see me put a vintage garment to good use.  I think what works here, though, is that it is obvious that I have kimono from a different era, and therefore it seems to be universally acceptable and acknowledged that these garments tend to be shorter on modern women - so exceptions are made.  If it was an obviously brand new kimono - it might not be as accepted, if that makes sense?  Also - impeccable kitsuke is very important...because it shows you made a conscious choice, and not a mistake.

The outfit I wore to JapanTown:


My Christmas Party Outfit (this photo was taken AFTER the party with no touch-ups to my kitsuke):


Of course, with that said...I would only wear no ohashori with casual kimono/casual events.  If I was attending tea ceremony or something far more formal - I would wear a kimono I can create an ohashori out of, simply because it feels appropriate with formal events.

Another thing - wearing kimono without ohashori feels quite different, you need to be more mindful about wrinkles, and how you sit down, etc in order to keep your kitsuke looking good.  If you're still not comfortable enough with wearing kimono WITH ohashori - you shouldn't go without until you are.

Immortal Geisha, the ensemble in the second photo (that very thirties green kimono) is just gorgeous - the kind of look I'd love to achieve with this checked tsumugi.

Some other ohashori details in this kimono blog show a ribbon-type himo, similar to the idea shinobu mentioned.  I really like that look.

Takenoko how on Earth are you finding all these fabulous blogs?!  

hibana, both in the same place actually - I bought a couple of obi from YJA and one of these blogs is the obi seller's blog (the one with the ohashori ideas) and the other one was linked from that one.  I keep my eyes peeled for likely links when I'm on YJA!

Having a koshihimo that's got elastic in it also really helps keep it where it should, as it has a bit of give. Mine are that way, and usually I don't have problems with the ohashori moving.

But then again, I also usually pad out like crazy, so my hips aren't that much bigger than my waist. But even when I do a more 'raku' style, like when I danced, I didn't have issues. I think I tie the himo right above my hips - nowhere near my waist.

It also helps to walk with small steps, as you're moving your hips less, so it's less likely to move (the walk that's from the knees down only).


Naomi, I LOVE both of those outfits. If if if if I ever get to visit you and wear kimono, will you dress me up in one?  They're gorgeous!

Certainly not having a ohashori is not a faux pas on the same order as folding a kimono right-over-left, but I have found in Japan, that even when wearing a yukata, doing without a ohashori unnerves Japanese women, so they try to “fixâ€Â

A random question! I have quite a few kimono where ohashori is very possible, but only if I wear the kimono a little short. What exactly is the highest acceptable length a kimono can go?

Mind, I probably wouldn't follow that rule if it were rainy. I always wear my kimono short on rainy days

If I'm not mistaken, anything above the ankle is too short. Once you factor in the height of the zori or geta, anything above the ankle will not look very pleasing. Ideally, the kimono should just touch the floor behind your heels when you're setting up your ohashori. That way, when you put on your zori, there isn't too much tabi (or ankle!) showing when you walk.

A centimeter or less above floor level is ideal. For tea related events, just at the lower circle of the ankle bone is good so you don't step on your kimono getting up and down. Mid-ankle is just barely acceptable for kimono, and at the top of the circle of the ankle bone is just barely acceptable for women's yukata. The kimono must always be longer than the top of the tabi socks, no matter what.

... I am still very  much a beginner, but this is what I've heard.

I'm 6 feet tall, even when I want to buy specially made kimono,... often a kimono bolt (tan) is  not long enough for me. (!!)  So it's very rare for me to find ones that work well for me.
I have been lucky to find several that I can wear with ohashori, but sometimes it is really pushing it.

This kimono here,... it's a formal ro (with crests), but because it's older, and well, it's beautiful, my sensei said it's ok to wear without ohashori.  I'm wearing it with a fukura suzume obi bow, even... which is pretty formal.


Even if you don't have ohashori... because of a kimono being too short, I would still tie at the waist like you were doing it, to get everything lying right. you can hide it under your obi.

... to me, shigoki obi is best when doing particular looks. I don't think you could just use a shigoki to hide lack of ohashori at any old time...

My sensei said the same thing as some others have said here, that for formal kimono it's much more important, but in all other cases it's acceptable to not have it.
with older vintage kimono,... like immortal geisha said.... so often they were much shorter than more modern ones, so even some japanese women who are very experienced in kimono wear these older ones without ohashori.  The very well dressed ladies at Kyoei Treasures in Torrance have done that several times, and it looked great.

For lots of Japanese blogs on kimono see:
http://fashion.blogmura.com/kimono/

My favorite blogs (in no particular order):
http://plaza.rakuten.co.jp/chalita/diary/

http://ameblo.jp/wabijin-wo-mezashite/

http://lulihakimono.blog109.fc2.com/

http://blog.goo.ne.jp/ake149/e/264b434a5ba52d28d6a1d2ba332ccdc2

The last one served as one of the models I used for how to coordinate my indigo tsumugi.

Here's anice photo of shigoki


from

http://ameblo.jp/wabijin-wo-mezashite/entry-10079263827.html

Same thing happened to me earlier this month when I (finally!) wore my first komon.  My ohashori actually disappeared beneath my obi and I was like,  :???:   I spent a lot of time trying to make it look nice, too, and nobody even got to see it.

I'll be using your method from now on; thanks for sharing it with us!

Dang, I missed this thread when it first popped up. I don't have much "proper knowledge" input, but I will say that tying the ohashori low on the hips (below the obi, not underneath it, if you get my drift) is a huge help. You have to be really careful to make sure the himo doesn't pop out and make a guest appearance, but it gives the look of a proper ohashori and allows much more range of upper-body movement.

I'm just over 5'10 and most of my kimono are older, so they're relatively short. I think my shortest is 59" (148cm approx) and I can manage to fudge one, but I don't know how well it would last for extended periods.

I know for the Fanime fashion show, Naomi didn't even bother trying to get one on me, she used a shigoki obi instead, and it looked very cute, since I was wearing furisode. It does work, but on a more "adult" (and not terribly Japanese/willowy) figure, you can see how an actual ohashori also helps manage any bodily curves better than the shigoki obi does.

It looks quite lovely from the front:


But here's a back view, and you can see the way the kimono sort of bunches above my rear end, despite it not being terribly ample.

Same here - I've found that if I tie the koshi-himo snugly right at my high hip/hip bones, it tends to not only not slide up higher (a towel filling in at my lower back helps some), but I can manage a longer ohashori as well.  This seems to work the best for getting the proper 'look' from the waist down on most of my kimono.

Here's a pic of an ohashori-less kitsuke attempt of mine. I'm wearing my meisen kimono which is very short and narrow, so it's almost unwearable but I decided to give a try.
As you can see my hips are giving me some trouble even I used a lot of padding but still I kinda like this style! I even wore this outfit out of the house once, with the basting stitches removed of course

Here's me in my nemaki sleepware yukata again. This time with the O-hashori properly tied with a koshi-himo.

It really does make a difference.

I got a new book yesterday:

ãÂ

Not really pertinent to the topic at hand, but MEOW, that juban in your book is awesome, Naomi.

I know!  The first thing Arian said was "You need that juban!"  

Apparently - so do you!

I also have two kimono which are even too short when worn without ohashori. But since they are nevertheless very nice I decided to use them as a coat for informal wear; so I attached some strings to the collar and the inside to close it like a dochuugi or jimbei-top. If I had sewing skills I could also imagine turning short kimono into nagajuban.

I'm the type who feels funny, if I'm not wearing it... If I don't wear it, I wear Shigoki. I managed to get really lucky, as a seller on Ebay was selling TWO yellow shigoki for 20$. I was all over it verrryy quickly. It's really a help for my taller friends.

ALL too short kimono could be worn with hakama for a schoolgirl/kimono hime style...

See also kitsuke blog hints at how to get away with no ohashori

I keep on wondering... isn't hakama meant for graduation?

Just so I know if wearing hakama outside of graduation would definitely make your outfit "kimono hime"/"who cares about rules it's fashion!".

Schoolgirls used to wear a hakama with simple hairstyle in the late Meiji/early Taishô period, after which they shifted to yôfuku styles. Now it is only (if ever) worn for graduation, but girls' hakama stays associated with school uniforms.

Would it be possible to sew in a fake ohashori? Has anyone done this before?
Like this maybe:

I'm not sure it's good if the fabric is weak, but mightn't it work for lined kimono not having fabric weakness?

I've seen it mentioned here, so I guess it does get done. (That's an awful-sounding sentence, ain't it?)

I once tried this: an old photo here. I sewed the ohashori the same way as in SuperGrouper's drawing.

I never actually wore this kimono because it was too small for me anyway and was flapping open all the time. But I think it looks like a real ohashori so it might work.

A Ohashori is not just for looks, so sewing in a Ohashori will provide the appearance, but won’t really solve the problem, since the real purpose of the Ohashori is to help conform the shape of the cylindrical kimono to the form of the body.

But you wont get killed by angry obatarian if you're not a japanese schoolgirl while wearing them, will you?