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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:12 am 
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Shikomi-san
Shikomi-san

Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:12 am
Posts: 6
The LA Times has a long article about the movie.  It is subscriber only but you can read it here

http://www.helloziyi.us/Articles/geisha-latimes.htm

It includes a new picture

Image

Quote:
The Geisha, In Translation - Los Angeles Times, March 6th 2005

By Bruce Wallace

In Rob Marshall's "Memoirs of a Geisha," with Chinese stars and a pan-Asian cast, will some essence go missing? Every move Komomo makes is rooted in Japanese ritual.

The way her body sinks to kneel, or how she uses just the fingertips of her right hand to slide open the wood-framed Japanese doors. The way she moves like smoke across the room on her dancer's toes.

Inside this cramped okiya, a household where aspiring geishas such as Komomo study the way dance, music and conversation can spin an enchanting mood, every action is a piece of performance art based on Japanese tales whispered down through generations.

"The dances are not just action; they are stories from our history, and you have to know that history to express it," says Koito, a retired geisha who owns the okiya and watches over Komomo with a mentor's possession. "You really have to understand Japanese culture to understand geishas."

Bottling the Japanese essence is the challenge facing American film director Rob Marshall and producer Steven Spielberg as they try to bring Arthur Golden's bestselling 1997 novel, "Memoirs of a Geisha," alive onscreen. Marshall recently finished shooting and has begun editing the estimated $85-million-budget movie, now scheduled for Christmas release.

But long before audiences have even seen a trailer, "Memoirs" has generated an underground controversy over the director's decision to cast non-Japanese actresses in the three leading geisha parts. From the opaque alleys of Kyoto's geisha districts to Internet movie chat rooms and the cast of the movie itself, the decision has created unease over what kind of footprint Hollywood will leave on this iconic element of traditional Japanese culture.

...

more - http://www.helloziyi.us/Articles/geisha-latimes.htm

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:36 am 
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Geiko-san
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Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:51 pm
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Quote:
"For Hollywood, however, this does not matter. For them, there is no difference between Japanese and Chinese."


Ty, Chen Kaige

Surprise? No, not really.


Quote:
"We talked about it at length and we said, 'What about this [or that] Japanese actress, would she work?' " Marshall recalls of the casting discussions. "And I said: 'Yes, but you know what? She's not as good.' And everybody agreed."


And Marshall would know how and why? That coming from somebody who, reportedly, doesn't even manage to keep the kimono the way they're described in Godlen's book is not really breathtaking. I'm somewhat sure he wouldn't even manage to name five Japanese actresses without having to look into some notes. Not to mention that I seriously doubt he really looked into the work of Japanese actresses anyway (someone like Miyazawa or Yonekura can act Zhang Ziyi against the wall with ease, but I seriously doubt they'd play in something like that). I also think most would have turned down to play in an American POV of the geisha anyway (and that's what it ultimately is). As the Korean Kim Yoon-Jin says "It's a matter of pride." Some people don't need to whore themselves out to Hollywood, and that's good.


Quote:
"I'm not doing a documentary of the geisha world — this is a fable," the director said in a phone interview during a break from editing in Culver City. "I'm very proud of an international cast. It is a celebration of the Asian community. I think it brings the world together."


Documentary or not has nothing to do with accuracy. If Spielberg can do it with Saving Private Ryan, then Marshall can do it with MoG (and if Golden managed it in the book, why doesn't the director manage that as well?). Or maybe it's because Spielberg is the far superior director? "It's not a documentary" is usually the excuse of the incompetent. It's the little details that make things interesting. Everyone can make a geisha movie, even I could, but there's a line between average and excellent, and that line is also defined by all the little details.

And Geisha are a Japanese thing, not an Asian, I wish Marshall would get that into his head.


Quote:
"Well, I'm doing a version of the book," Marshall says. "And in Arthur's book, they were whipped."


I still don't think he ever read it, cause if, then he'd get the kimono and everything else right.


Quote:
"The geisha movies of the 1960s and '70s seem so clichéd," Marshall says. "Little Japanese dolls, rubbing men's backs. In fact, the geishas of the '20s, '30s and '40s were the supermodels of their time."


He does realize that the movies from the 60s and 70s were clichéd everywhere? *doesn't want to think of the majority of German movies from that time* Those were scary.


I somewhat even doubt that it'll be THAT successful in the box office. I wouldn't be surprised if it would actually be a major flop there. I mean, there's not one Brad Pitt or Orlando Bloom in it, and for the average moviegoer names like Zhang Ziyi or Ken Watanabe possibly don't even ring a bell (though those two and Michelle Yeoh could ring a bell with most people, but the rest of the cast? I'd say even Gong Li isn't THAT well known outside of the geek circles). Then the setting, how many people would even be able to relate anything to it? Not many. The average viewer may be confused, and the geeks will just be appalled.

I still say, people who know nothing about geisha and people who never read the book will love it.

Everybody else will hate it.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:21 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 5:08 pm
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Fav. Motif: cranes,ume, kikusui
Now I have a terrible urge to go and whack Rob Marshall in the head or kick him somewhere .(well first he would have to kneel because I'm really short)
After reading the article I have to say I'm shocked at what he is saying.
I agree with the fact that I don't think he even bothered to try to find japaneese actresses.
This whole movie is a joke :angerburst
Even I can see a difference between chineese and japaneese people.

people  who don't know anything about geishas might love the movie but  people who actually know something most likely might not even go see it.
I'm not sure about the fact that the younger audience in Japan will like the movie.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:22 pm 
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Maiko-san
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I told my friend kanae about the movie and she looked it up...

"Incidently, I was disappointed for a moment to hear that the Chinese actress performed geisha's part. I think that the Japanese should perform geisha's part."

As a japanese woman living in Japan, I think I trust her judement more the Rob Marshall's :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:55 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 11:21 pm
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Quote:
Marshall's response is that he does not know — and does not care — about that history.

"I don't go into that world of Japan and China," the director says. "That's something I can't speak about because I don't know the relationship there. That's not what I'm doing. I'm re-creating a work of fiction as a filmmaker.


That, to me, says it all. Rob Marshall might as well slap us all in the face. He's saying, "I don't give a crap about historical background because I know everything I need to know and I'm going to do it MY way." His supreme arrogance just angers me.  :evil:

Quote:
Marshall says he auditioned and looked at tapes of "dozens and dozens of Japanese actors" but couldn't find one who met all his criteria for Sayuri. (Okamoto says Marshall never called her. "I auditioned for it again, of course," she says. Her videotape was rejected.)
...
Back in New York, he met and auditioned Zhang. "I had seen her in 'Crouching Tiger' and thought she was beautiful," he says, adding with a laugh that Spielberg had rejected Zhang for a part in "Memoirs" years earlier because the only English words she knew at the time were "hire me."


So Okamoto was good enough for Spielberg but not good enough for Marshall? And the actor who wasn't good enough for Spielberg suddenly becomes the lead? Something rotten in the state of Hollywood there... I understand that different directors have different visions but Spielberg is one of the great directors of our time. You would think his opinion would count for something.

What Rob Marshall is doing "doesn't make a lick of sense," as we like to say here in the South.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:34 pm 
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Geiko-san
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Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2004 2:51 pm
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Dozens and dozens? Oh really? Who? Certainly not the huge names of Japanese entertainment, or I would have heard about it somehow. No Yonekura, no Miyazawa, no Hirosue, no Fukada, no Uchiyama, no Nakama (who managed an audience rating of over 32% for the 8th episode of Gokusen a few days ago on NTV, which was a new record), no Tanaka, not even an Ueto or Suzuki?

Somehow I think he wouldn't even know who Yonekura Ryoko is...

Who the hell did he look at? I'm really curious.

Spielberg is... well... he's somewhat of a god in the industry. Marshall is what? A spoiled brat with no respect to other cultures, countries or actual history?

What really pisses me off is simply that Marshall is pulling that typical arrogant American crap. Meh... He's behaving like the cliché everyone knows as the typical American, sad, really. Feudal Japan had a term for people like him. Nanbanjin (southern barbarians).

Honestly, this may be a bit rude now (and hopefully not true), but with the way Marshall is praising Zhang Ziyi... it smells a lot like the old casting couch...

I have yet to wait for a statement of my gf's mother. I'm curious what she'll say. Hikaru, a friend of mine, was like "Memoirs of what? Wait, American movie? You think I care? They'll mess it up."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:28 am 
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Shikomi-san
Shikomi-san

Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:27 am
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Location: Minneapolis, MN (but an AZ-native!)
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Fav. Motif: maple, pine, bamboo
You know, I really hope that when the movie comes out people will see it. Then they'll really get into it. Then they'll look even further into the culture surrounding geisha. Then they'll see how wrong the movie was. Then other documentaries will come out. And people will see the truth. I really hope that's what happens.

Also, someone should find marshall's address, and we should flood his mailbox.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:05 am 
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Shikomi-san
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In my opinion, there is one phrase that voided any credibility that Rob Marshall had on this project. And I quote "Rob Marshall wanted to followup his critically acclaimed Chicago with another equally appealing film"

Telling the story of Nita Sayuri should have been approached with humility and not with a desire of furthering ones career. Art should be created because it must be created and not because creating will make ones resume look better to the film community.

I am so disappointed. I have read Memoirs of A Geisha 3 times, as well as in college created a small Geisha documentary of my own. The beauty of Arthur Golden's words is that he was accurate and did not stretch the truth. I do not believe Sayuri's story is a fable as Marshall has said. MOAG is only fictional with the names it uses, the tale is true.

If Rob Marshall would approach the book with as much humility as Golden approached researching the book then we would probably have a fabulous film.

Instead, like many of Steven Spielberg's recent films, Memoirs of A Geisha, the motion picture will be mediocre.

Son of Sayuri

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:32 pm 
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Maiko-san
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I truly hope that the movie will be harshly criticized......
Even better go to Rob Marshalls house in full geisha regalia and hit him with fans.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 11, 2005 8:03 pm 
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Maiko-san
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SonOfSayuri wrote:
I am so disappointed. I have read Memoirs of A Geisha 3 times, as well as in college created a small Geisha documentary of my own. The beauty of Arthur Golden's words is that he was accurate and did not stretch the truth. I do not believe Sayuri's story is a fable as Marshall has said. MOAG is only fictional with the names it uses, the tale is true.

If Rob Marshall would approach the book with as much humility as Golden approached researching the book then we would probably have a fabulous film.

Instead, like many of Steven Spielberg's recent films, Memoirs of A Geisha, the motion picture will be mediocre.

Son of Sayuri


I'm not sure what you mean by Memoirs of a Geisha being a "true" tale. Yes, it is heavily based on the stories of several geisha (including Mineko Iwasaki) but it IS a novel. There is truth in it in the sense that it does represent some facets of the geisha lifestyle (although not as accurately as it could). So I feel that Rob Marshall does have some license with the story, but not as much as he seems to think.

I find it interesting that Arthur Golden has not commented on the movie. I wonder if he is dismayed to have his book misinterpreted or if he is glad just to have the publicity. I rather suspect that he feels he cannot say anything as his book itself is a Westerner's interpretation of the geisha culture. However, I would be delighted to see him write a diatribe against the movie like Ursula K. LeGuin did when the Sci-Fi Channel butchered "Earthsea."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 10:16 pm 
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Shikomi-san
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:49 am
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Yuna-chan wrote:
I truly hope that the movie will be harshly criticized......
Even better go to Rob Marshalls house in full geisha regalia and hit him with fans.


Haha!!! Love it! I'm in!

I could never be a real geisha, but for god sakes I know how to do some research and at least come up with a decent historically correct outfit.

That would be so funny...trailed by an angry mob of geishas. :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:41 pm 
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Maiko-san
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So when is the premiere of the movie(was it december 2005?)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:07 pm 
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Geiko-san
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:tayuu
yes it was. I am wondering is any one still going to the premier?
I would love to go and meat some of you :D
Dr.B


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 5:54 pm 
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Shikomi-san
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Speaking of Premiere Magazine :)

Now this is really going to upset some of you. According to Premiere, Rob Marshall wasn't even interested in the subject matter in MOAG. Spielberg and others sent him photos of Geisha and Japan to woo him for the project. Obviously we know the abysmal outcome, Rob Marshall accepted.

SonOfSayuri

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:04 am 
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Maiko-san
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What a surprise!
Here is something interesting:
A letter from the producers of Memoirs of a Geisha,  Steven Spielberg, Lucy Fisher, and Douglas Wick,  written in response to the LA Times article "The geisha, in translation". Excerpts from the letter:

Should the historical turbulence between China and Japan prevent Zhang Ziyi from being cast in roles she completely commands with elegance, talent and grace?...

Criticizing a film because of an actor's birthplace or race is as ugly as it is wrong. When audiences finally see "Memoirs of a Geisha," they will be captivated by the amazing performers who have respectfully and lovingly brought this forgotten world and epic love story to life.

You can read more here:
http://www.helloziyi.us/Articles/geisha ... sponse.htm


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:59 pm 
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Shikomi-san
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What a very interesting reply written by Spielberg and co.

This is my issue. I don't doubt that Zhang is an amazing actress. Everything I've seen her in, she's been great. Her acting ability isn't the problem. The role of Nita Sayuri is not like finding an actress to perform with a southern accent [ala Vivien Leigh who was England born who played Scarlett O'Hara]

This story is about an exclusive part of Japanese culture, not a walk in the part. I have no doubt that Zhang will be great in the role but again, that's not the point. The point that this is about an exclusive cultural subculture.

Obviously this movie has been made, there's no turning back. I will stand by my opinion that Western white men see all asians with one face and it's obvious in the casting. What is also disheartening is that Marshall wasn't even interested in this story initially. That's no one I want directing a story so close to the hearts of so many people.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:47 pm 
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Geiko-san
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Hmm... you know... with the current situation between Japan and China this may even pour some oil into the fires of those right wing nuts who sometimes stand with their black buses near Yasukuni and hammer everyone with their "sono joi" slogans.

It's a pretty good target to be abused for right wing anti-Chinese and anti-American propaganda.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:48 pm 
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Maiko-san
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It's so funny how Rob Marshall said that how he admires and respects  japanese culture and geishas but the movie does not really show that:
interviw with Rob Marshall and cast.
http://michelleyeoh.info/Movie/Mg/mgnews013105.html
More pictures:
http://michelleyeoh.info/Movie/Mg/photos_mgnews.html
In one of the pictures (premiere photo) I think the fabric looks odd as well as the kimono :?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 1:48 pm 
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Maiko-san
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This is a  interesting site of information:
http://www.hoashi.com/memoirsofageisha/


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 4:23 pm 
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Geiko-san
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It's kind of funny, but I've completely stopped paying attention to this "piece" of film. My movie of the year will be "Otoko-tachi no Yamato", definitely.


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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 8:01 am 
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Shikomi-san
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Yuna-chan wrote:
This is a  interesting site of information:
http://www.hoashi.com/memoirsofageisha/


That was an interesting read!

Yeah, I would have liked to see GoGo from kill bill as a geisha, too! I thought she was so beautiful!

Let me just gripe a little more about the movie...THE HAIRSTYLES ARE SO WRONG!

OK I'm done.  :sleepy


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PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2005 8:12 am 
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Geiko-san
Geiko-san

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littlebird246 wrote:
Yuna-chan wrote:
This is a interesting site of information:
http://www.hoashi.com/memoirsofageisha/


That was an interesting read!

Yeah, I would have liked to see GoGo from kill bill as a geisha, too! I thought she was so beautiful!

Let me just gripe a little more about the movie...THE HAIRSTYLES ARE SO WRONG!

OK I'm done. :sleepy


Hmm, yes Kuriyama would have been great, but well lol... I doubt that she would have had the time for an adventure like that, she had three movies this year, one has come out already in Japan (Azumi 2), one's to come in summer (Yokai Daisensu) and the last one somewhere in autumn (Scrapheaven) if my memory serves me right. Also, she's even less known in the west than Yeoh and the rest. If you want to see her in kimono, have a look at the movie Shikoku :P She's absolutely stunning with such an outfit.


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 4:21 pm 
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Maiko-san
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New picture:
http://www.michelleyeoh.info/Movie/memo ... eisha.html

Sooooooo depressing :angerburst  :angerburst  :angerburst


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 5:09 pm 
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Geiko-san
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  I am going to see it I don't care what any on says I think it will  still be entertaning. Asied from the hair I think its going to preety good. Thta pic is rather preety

Dr.B


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:50 pm 
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Maiko-san
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So has anyone seen it yet?
I have to waite for atleast a month more.


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 Post subject: memoirs
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:07 am 
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Shikomi-san
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hello! i just joined this forum, and i must say im glad to see such a large following for geisha's. ive been randomly checking this site for a while now because it's the only site i know dedicated to geisha's. anyway, i saw "memoirs", and i absolutely hated it! the movie does not do any justice to geishas. they do not thoroughly show the process of becoming one, and there were seeeveral factors that were incorrect. i enjoyed the visuals though-the costumes were beautiful, and the setting was magnificent. i also adore gong li, and thought she was a fantastic Hatsumomo. she was the only one in the movie that looked like a true traditional geisha.
it couldve been better, but i suppose it will do for the american movie-goer. go see it, it's nice to see a movie dedicated to geishas. [/i]


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:11 am 
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Shikomi-san
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I have to wait until jan 19 for movie..

I am annoyed at a few things in the film...

I just hope it'll be a good watch


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 Post subject: On the virtues of running right out and missing it
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:19 am 
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Geiko-san
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Quote:
So has anyone seen it yet?


The following is probably going to sound like heresy, but Golden's novel was loaned to me a couple of years ago by a friend. I read it. I know I read it - but I can't remember it. Which means it was almost as bad as Bridges of Madison County which I put down after twenty pages and never finished.

So why would I drop $10 on a movie ticket to see a film based on a book that fails the "good storytelling" test? (For $10 I can buy two yards of silk at Dharma Trading.)

Roger Ebert, who, as far as I know is not an expert on Japanese culture, said: " I suspect that the more you know about Japan and movies, the less you will enjoy "Memoirs of a Geisha." Thank you Mr. Ebert for the warning. With my background as a historical re-enactor, I'm prone to nit pickery, even if it means going home after seeing something and looking stuff up for days. (For $10 I can go see "Brokeback Mountain.")

When I went to see "Narnia" and saw the preview and shuddered through the entire thing as I had "Flashdance" flashbacks. ($10 will cover roundtrip mass transit - BART and Muni - to San Francisco's Japantown.)

Two sen worth,
LJ


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:04 am 
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Shikomi-san
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Hehe...good point.. Although I LOVED the book, I have a disability when it comes to movies and books...even when it's my favorite in the world, I forget parts.. like amnesia...

I believe the fact that I had forgotten major parts of the book before I ever saw the movie made it just a little better.  :roll:

Now my head is packed with information from Liza Dalby and Leslie Downer...for some reason the non fiction will actually stick with my brain. And make it easier to watch. How merciful.  :|


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:54 pm 
Shikomi-san
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To someone who is already familiar with the sights and sounds of Japan, and in particular, those of the maiko and geiko, this film is impossible to get into.  

It was shot beautifully, and the story might have had good drama, but all of the details that were "off" were too distracting to take this film seriously.  

I found myself saying out loud, eew, yuck, what the??? the whole time watching it.  Glad I didn't have to pay to see it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:06 am 
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It bugged me a bit too. Was it just me or did the kitsuke often look sloppy?  Also, would it really have been that hard to make half wig katsura and just pull the actress's hair over them? To me it seemed like they just grabbed at what looked asian and threw it in the movie. Also, when Sayuri and Mameha are leaving for Sayuri's debut, did anyone notice that she just let that kimono drag along the cobble stones? My mouth dropped. I couldn't believe she was doing that...didn't she do it while she was walking outside with mameha too? It was just odd to me...like a theater production more than a movie. My mom probably got pissed at me because the whole time I found myself whispering corrections to her...haha...I think I might have ruined it for her...I feel bad now for not liking it too much :(

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 3:23 pm 
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A thing which annoyed me was the fact that everone else has black hair except Michelle Yeoh who has highlights in her hair :?
I also find it a bit odd that the geishas are just dragging the hems of the kimonos on the street because what I've seen they always lift the hem up so the kimonos won't get ruined.....or am I wrong?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:33 am 
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nah, you're very right. It'd be nuts to just let a garment like that drag through all that dirt on those streets. Outside is a no no for letting the hem drag...didn't mineko iwasaki say something about how she chased a man through the garden one night and she was so caught up in it she just let her hem drag behind her as she ran? I may be totally wrong on that part, but yeah, they should have pulled those hems up...think of all the wear and tear and dirt that would ruin the silk!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:06 am 
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I saw the movie last night and I really loved it, but Mameha didn't look as I expected her to, nor did the Baron. Gong Li was great though, she was a perfect Hatsumomo. And Ken Watanabe was soooooooooo sexy!  :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:51 pm 
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I enjoyed the movie and so did hubby.  However, he had a thousands questions afterward!  I too was pointing out mistakes during the movies as well, but I knew they were going to change the story for the movie. Books made into movies rarely match.  I also thought Sayuri did not look like a maiko when in her makeup.  I had heard somewhere that the makeup was toned down for a north american audience. :(


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:23 am 
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I'll stick with kugepoet on this issue. I'm usually nitpicking too. Heck, I had things to nitpick in Otokotachi no Yamato... but not many...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:07 pm 
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Maiko-san
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When I saw pictures from the movie I immediately started nitpicking to my friend who also is a geisha fan.
And after seing clips from the movie then  :angerburst
They should maybe not have used japanese words because I noticed that the main actresses had trouble to pronounce them.
When I heard Sayuri say Mameha it sounded like she was saying it Mameiha( even if I'm not sure how to say it correctly)
Yes,the makeup was toned down because it was conisdered too scary for a western audience.
In Japan the movie has not been very succesful at all and it seems it perhaps wont be releases at all in China.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:38 pm 
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Jumpercable wrote:
To someone who is already familiar with the sights and sounds of Japan, and in particular, those of the maiko and geiko, this film is impossible to get into. Â

It was shot beautifully, and the story might have had good drama, but all of the details that were "off" were too distracting to take this film seriously. Â

I found myself saying out loud, eew, yuck, what the??? the whole time watching it. Â Glad I didn't have to pay to see it.


That's totally how I felt.

I was honestly crying when I left the theater because I was so upset.  :cry:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:33 am 
Shikomi-san
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Hello! :)
I've got two questions...
The first one is: The dance Sayuri performs in which there is snow and she running on some kind of platform... is it REALLY a geishaDANCE? Dosen't look that way. And the hairstyle, I've never seen any real geisha wearing it.
And here's the second question: This hairtyle : http://www.helloziyi.us/Galleries/new/moag-hq1.htm
and this:
http://www.helloziyi.us/Galleries/new/m ... ery-09.htm
...geisha hairsyles? Do they exist? :?
Thanks.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:56 pm 
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Quote:
Hello!  
I've got two questions...
The first one is: The dance Sayuri performs in which there is snow and she running on some kind of platform... is it REALLY a geishaDANCE? Dosen't look that way. And the hairstyle, I've never seen any real geisha wearing it.
And here's the second question: This hairtyle : http://www.helloziyi.us/Galleries/new/moag-hq1.htm
and this:
http://www.helloziyi.us/Galleries/new/m ... ery-09.htm
...geisha hairsyles? Do they exist?  
Thanks.

Arkmeira, the dance Sayuri performs isn't a geisha dance at all, though she is representing a Japanese legendary character, I think her name is the Snow Lady or something like that. I think the coreographer designed that dance based on Oriental dances and mixed with Occidental things, something strange.
And the photographs you say, they aren't worn by geisha, it is an adaptation maybe because the original geisha and maiko hairdressing could be expensive or complicated... Senior Geisha maybe could wear a hairdress chosen by themselves, I'm not sure, but in that photographs Sayuri should wear a maiko hairdress, not that thing. :D

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:33 pm 
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Tomoe wrote:
I think the coreographer designed that dance based on Oriental dances and mixed with Occidental things, something strange.


In this documentary (originally posted by Immortal Geisha here), the choreographers say just that, Tomoe--and Liza Dalby goes on to laud them for their deviations from standard, traditional dance.  It all goes back to making the culture as appealing and perhaps as easy to swallow by Westerners as possible.  Friggin' Hollywood  :mad:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:29 am 
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What I know none of the hairstyles are correct.
The reason why is that Rob Marshall felt that the classical look of geishas is too unappealing and not suitable for modern day viewers(it would scare them away).
He wanted to make everything more like a fashionshow in Paris.
The dance is what I've heard loosely based on a traditional story of Sagimusume.
Sagimusume is the incarnation of an egret who appears on the snowy bank of a stream. Symbolizing her budding love, she wears a Japanese wedding dress and carries a traditional rice-paper umbrella. As a reflection of her heightened emotional state, her costume changes and she begins an impassioned dance. When she finds her love is unrequited, her gown changes again and she begins to succumb to a broken heart, bowing down to death amidst the cold of winter.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:36 pm 
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Yuna-chan wrote:
What I know none of the hairstyles are correct.
The reason why is that Rob Marshall felt that the classical look of geishas is too unappealing and not suitable for modern day viewers(it would scare them away).


The only geisha/maiko hairstyle that was correct was for Pumpkin's debut.  Although it wasn't super neat and fantastic - it was clearly a good effort at a wareshinobu style.

The hairstyles of Auntie and Mother would have been pretty correct for the time also - but they were wearing more western hairstyles, not traditional hairstyles.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:10 pm 
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Immortal Geisha wrote:

The only geisha/maiko hairstyle that was correct was for Pumpkin's debut. Â Although it wasn't super neat and fantastic - it was clearly a good effort at a wareshinobu style.

The hairstyles of Auntie and Mother would have been pretty correct for the time also - but they were wearing more western hairstyles, not traditional hairstyles.


I noticed that!! Granted I need a second look at it, but I remember Pumpkin looking the most "official" there....

I thought Auntie and Mother looked good...considering they weren't "active" geisha anymore I forgave the hairdo's....I thought they totally pegged Mother.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:53 am 
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Maiko-san
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I completely forgot about Pumpkins hair :o
Her hair actually looks ok.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:33 pm 
Shikomi-san
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Sheesh, I don't even remember what pumpkin looked like! :o
I would like to see a picture of her debut from the film... but it seems like it's impossible to find. :mad:
If anybody would find such a picture, be so kind to post it, please.   :lovelove

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:47 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Now I've finally seen the whole movie.
And it was okey but not great.
The only performance that I really remember was Suzuka Ohgo and Gong Li.
The kimonos and hairornaments were not glamorous at all.
And the dance :angerburst
The only good part with going to see this movie was that I could a free Max Factor mascara :)  
Here is a picture of Pumpkin and Sayuri:
http://www.helloziyi.us/Galleries/new/m ... ery-31.htm

Arkmeira, talar du svenska?
Hip hurra :)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:18 pm 
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Pumpkin was the only character I remember that wore an almost real geisha hairdress... well, I'm happy something could look like a geisha, not like a modern-Occidental version of the Japanese traditional hairdressing. :(

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:26 pm 
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I posted this pic of Pumpkin in the other big thread on the film, and it's a good shot of her hairstyle:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:51 pm 
Shikomi-san
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Yuna-chan wrote:
Arkmeira, talar du svenska?
Hip hurra :)


Jadå, jag talar svenska! Jag trodde jag var den enda här! Vad kul med en geisha-intresserad svensk! :lovelove

And to the rest of you, thanks for the photos, now I remember ;)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:55 am 
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Haha!
Så roligt fast jag är finlandssvensk att vara helt korrekt.



Pumpkin looked quite nice in the movie compared to the others.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 1:39 am 
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oooooooh thats the hairstyle I was talking about! It looks like they even really did her hair, not even a wig!

Bleh. I have washed my hands of this movie.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:28 am 
Shikomi-san
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Well I have been an observer here for some time now.. suppose it was time for me to join and say something...

I saw the movie with a bunch of friends. About 30 of us converged on the Boca Muvico on Premiere Night.

I guess I am going to sound a bit out of line here, but I guess I have become such a Taoist.. I just have to say.. the movie it is what it is.... I was a history major in college and I love researching details and discovering the facts and resources.. but when it comes to entertainment, it is what it is....  

I enjoyed the movie for what it was.  It was not a documentary or a History Channel presentation, but a Hollywood movie.

And for what it was it was really enjoyable.  Costuming, setting was excellent. I think all the actors did a fine job, but I agree with many of you, Hatsumomo was the best actress in the movie... although I really enjoyed the young Sayuri.  Watching the youthful actress hurry along the path in her clogging sandals or that ice cream smile, was just beautiful.

Art is art. All art has something to offer if we just open our eyes to see it. I feel a little sad for those who were so caught up in the historical acuracy that you may have missed a very enchanting fantasy for an evening.

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