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 Post subject: Geisha Katsura vs Wedding Katsura
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:52 pm 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:54 pm
Posts: 925
Location: Germany
Fav. Motif: Hikizuri
The following Photo-collage may answer the most questions about the differences between Wedding Katsura ( upper pic) and the Geisha Katsura ( middle and last pics)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/34548436@N ... otostream/

These are the three most worn shimada hairstyles, but as we all know: for special plays and dances, there are much much more.......

The red and white ornaments are a good giveaway to identify a wedding katsura.
The high shimada is used at some dances though, but my knowledge is not big enough to tell you in wich roles that is.
To me, the most important issue for an authentic Geisha-look is the Ami-katsura ( the ones with netted hairline. ( allthough modern wedding-katsura have this hairline aswell nowadays)

I asked some members who collect Odori programs, and they might be the better persons to ask, when geisha started to wear the katsura WITH hairline.
I guess it must be after 1966, I guess early to mid 70ies, maybe 80ties, I can't tell,sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha Katsura vs Wedding Katsura
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:55 pm 
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Furisode Shinzo
Furisode Shinzo

Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:09 am
Posts: 1955
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
Fav. Geiko: Eitaro, Tsuneyuu
Fav. Motif: Takaramono/Cranes/Dance
Geimyo: Touzuda 冬鶴朶
What is a shimada? And what do you mean by netted hairline? <----Newbie to katsura
Thanks for making this thread Suara!

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-Evan***My Kimono Collection (Flickr)***HikariKimono (My Blog)***Evyon25121 (My Channel)***hikari-evyon (DeviantArt)
"Fan fiction: the more bittersweet, unrequited love, bizarre pairings and smut/fluff you can handle the better (but I'll never admit that to anyone, even with the threat of death lol)"


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha Katsura vs Wedding Katsura
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:27 am 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:54 pm
Posts: 925
Location: Germany
Fav. Motif: Hikizuri
The Shimada is the name for the Hairstyle.

The store: outlet-wig at Noppin has allways many wigs to choose from, in the translation most of the time also indicated if for Brides or Geisha.


http://www.noppin.com/portal_ya_lists/e ... outlet_wig

Just study the pictures, specially the front side of the katsura of the cheaper ones( around 5000 to 7000 yen) and the more pricy ones ( starting from 40.000yen) and you will see what I mean.

The following picture shows the difference very clear: Upper katsura without netted hairline, lower one: Ami-Katsura ( so WITH ventilated hairline) like geishas nowadays wear them:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/34548436@N ... otostream/

Please Note: the picture showing both are wedding Katsura, so Taka Shimada, the highest form of the Shimada Hairstyle.


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha Katsura vs Wedding Katsura
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:34 am 
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Furisode Shinzo
Furisode Shinzo

Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:09 am
Posts: 1955
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA
Fav. Geiko: Eitaro, Tsuneyuu
Fav. Motif: Takaramono/Cranes/Dance
Geimyo: Touzuda 冬鶴朶
Ohhhhh I see now. :)

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"Fan fiction: the more bittersweet, unrequited love, bizarre pairings and smut/fluff you can handle the better (but I'll never admit that to anyone, even with the threat of death lol)"


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha Katsura vs Wedding Katsura
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:42 am 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 1207
Location: Maryland, USA
Here is my post in the hiki thread that started this:

Suara- Maybe you can help us here.

I know modern Geisha wear a pointed front wig that looks different from modern wedding ones. And other than the point, I don't know the differences.

However I have a dance program from the 1960s where the Hakata geigi wear what appears to be an identical wig to the wedding ones. I'm vintage, I have a vintage hiki, so I figured a vintage style wig would go.

Image

Do modern geisha never wear a high shamada? And honestly when I stare at pictures of low and high shamada - except in rare cases of very high - I'm at a total loss to see the difference. :mad:

Here is a Kyoto maiko turning collar:
Image

Here is my wig:
Image


For the life of me I can't see the difference. HElP! :twitch:


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha Katsura vs Wedding Katsura
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:44 am 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 1207
Location: Maryland, USA
Suara - So do you think my wig is not a wedding wig as its ties are white and not red and white? Thanks. :smil3:


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha Katsura vs Wedding Katsura
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:58 am 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:54 pm
Posts: 925
Location: Germany
Fav. Motif: Hikizuri
Chiisana Hato:

I Think(!!) that your Katsura is a wedding katsura.
The middle Shimada that Geisha use, does not have so much "space" you can look thru at the knot. But: for Cosplay or just dressing up, I think it is still OK to wear it, as long as you don't tell that your Katsura is 100% original Geisha.

Allthough: as I mentioned before: the Taka Shimada IS also used by geisha in some dances and plays, but in most cases they wear the Middle and crushed Shimada.
Now, I am NOT an expert in this matter, I think Mojuko is way more knowledgable then me in this case.
I just "learned" by observing, and as we all know: in no other kitsuke, the even smallest details matter then in Geisha Kitsuke :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha Katsura vs Wedding Katsura
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:45 am 
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Geiko-san
Geiko-san

Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:56 pm
Posts: 1864
Location: Dreaming bout kimono
Fav. Geiko: kotoha
Fav. Motif: asanoha
you see in the back of the hairstyle. (its hard to describe this) the loop before its tied to the white paper? that bump? look at yours. now look at the geikos (who i believe is ichimame). hers is slightly curved inwards at the side.
yours is all bundled at the top allowing a full view through the loop.


i hope that makes sense?

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 Post subject: Re: Geisha Katsura vs Wedding Katsura
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:55 pm 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 1207
Location: Maryland, USA
Thanks Onanako. Now I think I understand a little more. :unsure:

Can a wig like mine be crushed by changing out the back tie piece?

Has anyone tried this?

If so, where does one get the proper piece to change out?


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha Katsura vs Wedding Katsura
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:22 pm 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:54 pm
Posts: 925
Location: Germany
Fav. Motif: Hikizuri
I have tried to search a thread here, where I think that Mojuko and Naomi changed one of their Katsura by taking out the Paper a little, and flatten it a little, but I can't find it no more :oops:


I have to admit, it is really hard to see the differences for the untrained eye, but as in so many things in Kitsuke, it is all about proportions and tiny little details.


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha Katsura vs Wedding Katsura
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:58 pm 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 1207
Location: Maryland, USA
Thanks for looking Suara.

If anybody here has had any success modifying their wig, please let us know. I'm sure we would all be interested. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha Katsura vs Wedding Katsura
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:28 pm 
Shikomi-san
Shikomi-san

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:18 pm
Posts: 144
Fav. Maiko: Ayano!!
Fav. Geiko: Umeha and I loved Kotoha
Fav. Motif: Bellflowers and waves
Can you redo a katsura? Like if I bought a wedding katsura could I redo the hair into a geiko style?


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha Katsura vs Wedding Katsura
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:20 pm 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:54 pm
Posts: 925
Location: Germany
Fav. Motif: Hikizuri
styling a katsura is a work of art.
it takes a lot of practice, the right materials and a lot of talent.........


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 Post subject: Re: Geisha Katsura vs Wedding Katsura
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:47 am 
Shikomi-san
Shikomi-san

Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:18 pm
Posts: 144
Fav. Maiko: Ayano!!
Fav. Geiko: Umeha and I loved Kotoha
Fav. Motif: Bellflowers and waves
I am really good at wig and I'm a quick study. I love hair. Im also geting new tools to work with ^_^. I should only have to change the bun area. I will get some help from family wig maker.


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