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 Post subject: Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:55 pm 
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Captain Okamisan (owner)
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Men's Kimono

1. The kimono sleeves are sewn to the body of the kimono - rather than being open like women's kimono sleeves. Sometimes, there may be a small section of 2 or so inches that is not sewn to the body of the kimono - but this section is always sewn shut.

2. The kimono is not worn with a ohashori. It is made to fit them for their specific height and is worn and fits much like how a juban would fit a woman. If the kimono was a little bit too long, you would need to hide the ohashori somehow. Men do wear juban and han-eri, but they use less koshi-himo seeing there is no need for an ohashori.

3. The kimono sleeves are never rounded. The sleeves for a kimono get more round as you get farther away from "being a man."

4. Men wear kaku obi. Men's obi are thinner than even hanhaba obi.

5. The kimono tend to be plain and subtle coloured - browns, dark blues, greens, greys, etc. If there is a pattern - it tends to be stripes, checks or plaids of sorts. The juban will often have a pattern on it - but more of a manly design and is often blue or brown. The only exception for patterned kimono with men seems to be with enka singer's kimono, which do have designs on them and yukata seem to have more freedom with designs.



Photographs:

Kimono Informal:
Image

Kimono Formal:
Image

Juban
Image

Sleeve
Sometimes this is sewn completely to the body - and sometimes it isn't.
Image



Useful Websites

Online store showing some modern kimono style for men:
http://www.kimono.co.jp/kic/mini/mens/brand4.html

Kateigaho International Article: "Kimono Chic for Men: Wear it Your Way":
http://int.kateigaho.com/jun04/kimono-for-men.html

Yamatoku: Men's Kimono:
http://www.yamatoku.jp/classic/listing.asp?genre=61

Ichiroya: Men's Kimono
http://ichiroya.com/item/list.php?ct=005



Relevant Threads:
Original Thread: viewtopic.php?t=2480
viewtopic.php?t=2899

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:43 am 
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Shikomi-san
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I'm confused about the sleeves of a man's kimono.  I (finally) bought a kimono (or maybe yukata, I cant tell if it's silk or not) and I thought it was a man's kimono, but after reading this, I'm not so sure.  It doesnt have a bright, colorful pattern common to women's kimono; it's black with stripes.  It's not formal at all, because there are no crests on it.  However, the bottom corner of the sleeves are a little rounded and the sleeves are kinda long and open.  Does this mean I bought a woman's kimono?  Please help, for if I am wrong, I think I shall cry.   :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:

View of the sleeve in relation to the kimono:
Image

Detail of the sleeve corner:
Image


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:02 am 
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First Mate Boobie-san (Mod)
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How long is it, Haruo? The length in relation to the sleeves might help. It does look, based on the sleeves, that it's for women.

I'm wondering if it's a kimono for older women; generally they wear darker, subdued colors, and I think the more rounded sleeves are for younger people, so older women's kimono would be less round.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:10 am 
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Shikomi-san
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Iyolin wrote:
How long is it, Haruo? The length in relation to the sleeves might help. It does look, based on the sleeves, that it's for women.

I'm wondering if it's a kimono for older women; generally they wear darker, subdued colors, and I think the more rounded sleeves are for younger people, so older women's kimono would be less round.


:angerburst  :angerburst  :cry:  :cry:  :angerburst  :angerburst

Argh, are you serious?  I bought an OLD LADY KIMONO?!!

The total length of the sleeve is around 21.5 inches, and the opening is 12 inches long.  

:angerburst  :angerburst  :angerburst  :angerburst  :angerburst  :angerburst  :angerburst


I guess that's what I get for buying a $25 kimono from the Salvation Army.

:evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:  :evil:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:45 am 
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Maiko-san
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Mature women's kimono are can be dressed up, esp. if you prefer the darker colors and subdued patterns. It's a nice choice if you want to show off a particular obi or have mad musubi skills.

Sometimes you'll come across tricky ones like... (this one)

I believe it's a women's kimono because of the miyatsukuchi (身八ãÂ


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:56 pm 
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Maiko-san
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I´m confused, did you want a men´s kimono?  If you did, I´d say you´re in luck, this looks like a good candidate for a few alterations and then, TaDa man´s kimono.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:24 am 
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Shikomi-san
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Kaede wrote:
I´m confused, did you want a men´s kimono?  If you did, I´d say you´re in luck, this looks like a good candidate for a few alterations and then, TaDa man´s kimono.


Kaede, you read my mind! :)  :)  :)   When I told my mother this, she asked if I could simply alter the sleeves a bit and then wear it as a man's kimono.  I'd like to do this, but I'm not sure how.  How would you turn this into a man's kimono?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 12:03 pm 
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Jimae Geiko
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Haruo, remaking women's kimono as men's, by altering the sleeves, is in the kimono sewing megathread, discussed in April 2007 - scroll down the first page and you'll see it.  

Of course, with a kimono like this, you could wear it as it is with more masculine styles of hanhaba obi (stripes, geometrics etc) with masculine musubi in a kind of hybrid style. I think I've posted this scan before somewhere, but after 15 minutes of searching I can't find it, so sorry, here it is again -
Image
This is from a feature in "Utsukushii Kimono" magazine from 1998 (Fall, if I'm remembering right!) from a feature about the otoko poi style.  It shows how to do the "no ohashori" look for a masculine look too.  Kai no kuchi musubi is a good one for a masculine style - the one at the top of this page is a bit more elaborate, like kai no kuchi over a bow.

If you alter the sleeves to men's style, you will only be able to wear men's obi in men's low hip style with it - the men's sleeve/body seam gets in the way of any obi that goes higher.  Ultra subdued kimono can look amazing.  Your's doesn't look "older" in the way that many do (think small floral patterns on lilac greys), it definitely has a more masculine look to the fabric.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 2:20 pm 
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Jimae Geiko
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oooh, Takenoko, thanks for posting that picture! I've been thinking about how to do men's style on myself for awhile.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 5:17 pm 
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Jimae Geiko
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I'm sure I've posted it before - maybe I had planned to and didn't! ;)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 10:46 pm 
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Shikomi-san
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Hey I was wondering, (and feeling sort of dumb), what are those nifty little spheres on a string down by the waist called? And what are they for, just decoration? ^_^
Image


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:38 pm 
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Jimae Geiko
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They're the fluffy tassels on the ends of the himo that close the haori.
Here's a closer picture:
Image
I don't know if the tassels themselves have a name...

ETA: Haha, the picture name has them as "pompom"s.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:49 pm 
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Shikomi-san
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oh, cool! Thanks Bebemochi! ^_^


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:57 am 
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Shikomi-san
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Takenoko, thanks for the link!  I think I'll try that as soon as I can, because it doesnt look too incredibley difficult to do.

:)  :)  :)  :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:04 am 
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Shikomi-san
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Is there any difference between men's kimono and men's yukata?  That is to say, are the sleeves similar in both a yukata and a kimono for men (or women, for that matter)?  ie, they're sewn completely to the side except for like two inches or what?  I might possibly be getting a chance to buy a yukata this weekend, and I'd like to know before I make another mistake like the last kimono thing I bought.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:43 pm 
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Jimae Geiko
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Men's kimono and yukata are constructed essentially the same, so if you stick to the sorts of things you mentioned--square sleeves that are sewn up in the back and mostly sewn to the body--you'll be fine!

For clarification, women's kimono and yukata have essentially the same construction, as well. So if you run into any sleeves with an open back, you know it's a lady's garment!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 7:41 am 
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Shikomi-san
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bebemochi, thanks so much for confirming that.  Actually, I was a little late in posting that and never saw that before I bought my yukata.  When I was going through the rack, I kept on feeling up the sleeves and praying that I was aiming for the right stuff.

Here's the yukata I bought (in case anyone cares):
Image

I wanted one that didnt look too onsen-y, but I they pretty much all looked like that.  There was a really nice black one, but I didnt want to disappear into the background!  :)

Sleeve detail:  
Image

It's a little long...but sewn up.  I think it's okay, right?

I need to hem it though; it's a little on the long side.  I know I cant do the tuck thing, but it can be normally hemmed, right?  I'm going to ask my mom to do it, though, seeing as I got suckered into some stuff... :evil:  :evil:  :evil:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:39 pm 
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Haruo, I think that's a really nice yukata! I can't wait to see you wearing it. The sleeves look perfect.
You can make a little fold at the waist if you want, just so long as it's entirely hidden by the obi. But I don't see any reason to bother with that if you're going to be the only one wearing the yukata. Hemming it should be fine. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:07 pm 
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Shikomi-san
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Okay so some of my male friends have expressed interest in kimono wearing! I am extremely excited but there are things that I do not know about men's kimono.  I know that the fit of men's kimono is not as forgiving as womens.  So how do I measure for hakama and haori? From what part of the waist do I measure? How high are hakama usually worn?  Do they drop around the ankles? Where do I even start to measure haori? Help me please!!     :mad:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:10 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Ayane, I recommend browsing Ichiroya's men's kimono section to find out about the right lenght of kimono, hakama and haori. They have sets for large men too. You also can find large men's kimono in YJA.
In this thread selwyn kindly replied to my question about the right lenght of hakama. There are also some other good threads about men's kitsuke, I recommend to take a look :)
If your friends are going to wear kimono with hakama it's okay even the kimono is short. So I'd try to find a kimono and a matching haori with a large enough wingspan. The wingspan of the haori can't be smaller than the kimono's of course.

I recently started to put an ensemble together for my husband. I'll post pics soon :)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:43 am 
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Shikomi-san
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OMG!!! Thank you so much Xiner!!  I even read that thread when Selwyn answered you I must have forgot! Thanks again!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:08 am 
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I'm confused about this one... It is listed as a men's kimono, but I wonder. The sleeves seem to be opened at the back, and their lower seam is rounded.

Image

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:04 am 
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Shikomi-san
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I can definately say it's not a man's kimono.
You can tell because
First, the sleeves are opened at the back, secondly the design. I doesn't seem quite new does it. And I'm positive that vintage men's stuff didn't have such kind of design...

And finally, the lining. This kimono's got two different linings : the upper part (which is white) and the bottom part (which is blue) and men's kimonos lining are never in two parts like some women's stuff...

So yeah. It's a women's kimono, looks like a komon to me but then I'm no expert for this...


Last edited by selwyn on Fri May 09, 2008 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:57 pm 
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Maiko-san
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I agree it's a women's komon kimono. Though I'd say it could be altered to a men's kimono with a little bit sewing. A man with some courage would look great wearing it :)

selwyn wrote:
And finally, the lining. This kimono's got two different linings : the upper part (which is white) and the bottom part (which is blue) and men's kimonos lining are never in two parts like some women's stuff...


I got this kimono for my husband. Doura, hakkake and even hiyoku can be found:

Image
However, this is a montsuki with 5 crests and I wouldn't expect to see this kind of lining in informal men's kimono. It's a wonderful kimono btw. Too bad I can't wear it  :P


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:17 am 
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Shikomi-san
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My mistake then.
But I thought men's kimono didn't have hakkake and doura. I've got three montsuki and a five or so awase and none of them are lined in two part (or more)...

Good to know though  :)


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:31 pm 
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Maiko-san
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ok, I've got a question:

can a woman wear mean's juban?

Because I LOVVVEEE men's juban!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:08 pm 
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I guess the only problems would be to change the han'eri colour (unless you do want black) and finding the right measurements, in length, wingspan, sleeve length, and shoulder span. Oh, and total hem length (edit, no, not hen length...) so it fits around your hips.

I don't know whether they would be compatible, since I never looked into the question. I just thought: "Why do the men have all the gorgeous designs? Each time I see one I like, it's a men's!"

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:23 pm 
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Tahanala wrote:
I guess the only problems would be to change the han'eri colour (unless you do want black) and finding the right measurements, in length, wingspan, sleeve length, and shoulder span. Oh, and total hem length (edit, no, not hen length...) so it fits around your hips.

I don't know whether they would be compatible, since I never looked into the question. I just thought: "Why do the men have all the gorgeous designs? Each time I see one I like, it's a men's!"


I know, for serious! I LOVE the old Taisho airplanes and baseball games patterns on Ichiroya, and stumbled on a totally badass juban with a big lion on the back and they're for men ;___;

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:28 am 
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Jimae Geiko
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The only two problems I can think of are that men's juban will not have a slit into which you can fit an eri-shin, and that the back of men's juban sleeves will generally be sewn closed, which will earmark it as a men's piece.

You could probably fix these issues pretty easily. If you chose not to, it's like anything else nontraditional one chooses to do in kimono -- have excellent kitsuke, so everyone knows you're breaking a rule intentionally rather than through ignorance.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:26 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Hmm, they are so tempting though....

Ok, i have another question that doesn't require another thread.

I want to wear my navy blue asanoha synthetic kimono as a dress-like piece of clothing...meaning, I want to wear it with leather boots and jubanless. It will still have an ohashori, but will have a much longer one so the boots are shown (its SUCH an awesome pattern I have to wear it more often!)

Because of how the kimono without an obi to secure it slides open naturally to reveal boobage (o____o), and wearing a full out nagoya/hakata obi seems silly, was thinking of getting a thinner and more subdued men's kaku obi for that purpose, to keep the kimono from sliding open and to give the illusion that no, I'm not pregnant.

Like this one:
Image

Weird? Stupid? Sacrilige?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:25 am 
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Jimae Geiko
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Uh, well, I'm not sure it'll do the trick, because if you wear the obi where a man would, under your belly, your kimono will probably come open at your bust anyways. So I wouldn't really say "stupid," but I might not say "effective," either. You should probably consider a shirt of some kind underneath.

As for weird, we've had a couple of threads discussing women cross-dressing in wafuku, so it may not be common, but it's definitely not weird.
http://www.immortalgeisha.com/ig_bb/vie ... hp?t=11838
http://www.immortalgeisha.com/ig_bb/vie ... php?t=9421
I know souso likes to cross-dress, but unfortunately, the pictures in all her Photo Gallery threads are broken. :cry:

As for "sacrilege," well, if you're already planning to wear the kimono jubanless and hitched up to show off boots, you're clearly not concerned with tradition...why worry about adding another non-traditional element, at this point?   :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:12 pm 
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Hay I am trying put together a ensamble for my husband to wear to the local renessance festival with me.  But I was not sure If it would be more approprate for him to wear casual with just a haori over his kimono or would it be more approprate for him to wear hakama as well.


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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:18 am 
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Maiko-san
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Takenoko posted this great tutorial here on how to do the "otoko poi"/ tomboy style. I absolutely love it but was wondering....

I have a kimono that's too short for ohashori. It is feminine, but not a fluffy furisode:
Image
Image


I have a watermelon pink hanhaba hakata obi to go with it. Again, girly color, but not girl overload IMO.

So my question is this....

Can you do otokopoi style with a "tomboy-ish" women's kimono? Men's wear feminized to be womenswear is commonplace today, was wondering if it goes over to kimono.

NOTE: Yeah, I'll never go out to a seriously fancy outing like this, I just like experimenting :P

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:36 pm 
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Jimae Geiko
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Can you do otokopoi style with a "tomboy-ish" women's kimono? I don't see why not! The kimono in the full-page photo feature that went with that same article I posted weren't all men's kimono - just farily masculine kind of patterns, and there are lots of women's casual kimono just like that. Some of the kimono being given the otoko-poi treatment were even worn with ohashori, but using hanhaba obi tied in more masculine musubi styles.

When I can find where I've put that magazine, I'll scan some more pics (eventually - don't hold your breath in anticipation!) :P

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:25 pm 
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Maiko-san
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I have found two items from Yahoo Japan Auctions that have made my husband's life soooo much easier when wearing men's kimono!

The first is a metal S-shaped collar clips to hold the upper eri in place on both nagajuban and kimono.

I love the Japanese description on the ones I bought - "Please use that the woman gets the crumble of the collar anxiously." I like the "listen-up dumb ass - men may not give a rat's patootie what they look like, but lordy knows you don't want to make the gf or wife anxious!" Very insightful seller. Must be married. Ha-ha-ha.

And the clips with elastic bands to hold the kimono closed - like women's but in navy blue.

If you have not already discovered these, I HIGHLY recommend them.
http://page6.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/f67693920
http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m61994159
http://page14.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/s115387467

Um, OK, now how to use the S-clip. I must admit that I need to get into the "Zen" of the silly thing to get it first try. lol

As we know, men's collars are tacked down on juban and kimono leaving a space between the collar and the main body of the fabric.

First get the front V where you want it for the juban.

Reach in the front V and slightly flip the fabric of the under flap of the juban (right side) slightly out to access the slot between the collar and the main fabric on the inside.

Slip one side of S-clip into slot right at the perfect V spot while the other side of the S-clip is on top towards you. Kind of like a tie clip.

The other side of the S-clip now slides into the back slot on the adjacent, left front piece by slightly flipping out the fabric and pulling to your left to get the second S to tuck in.

Repeat on kimono.

This is really hard to explain in words. If you have any questions, please let me know. :flustered


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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:40 pm 
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Jimae Geiko
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Thank you, Chiisana, I think I get it now!
Just so that we know what this discussion is about when the YJA auctions end:
Image

(I didn't save a picture of the men's korin belt because it's just like a women's, but navy rather than pink. ;) )

I'm gonna try to get a scan of the men's kimono book I have that shows this in pictures. I think your works with my pictures should do the trick for everyone! (I'm probably also gonna do a book review.)

It also seems to me that the same thing could be accomplished with two bobby pins...hrm! Will have to experiment!

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:57 pm 
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Shikomi-san
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Bebemochi : I'm personnally using those little metal clips (don't know the name in english, see picture below) to hold everything in place.
Image

However they can't be used directly as they are. I have to bend them to be able to use them correctly. Also I don't think it can be done with the smaller ones.
What I do is to clip the left okumi of the juban to the right okumi of the kimono.

But I've got to say that these clips shown above look quite useful!

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 4:06 pm 
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First Mate Boobie-san (Mod)
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Selwyn, a nice idea!


In English, that is a paperclip.

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:53 am 
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Jimae Geiko
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Here is the book scan I promised!
Image

I think with this picture and Chiisana's explanation, I really get it, now! I need to get my hands on one of these for Brian. His kimono behaves itself okay, but his juban can be a mess sometimes! ;)

If anyone is interested, I reviewed the book I scanned this picture from in the Book Review forum. viewtopic.php?f=28&t=12398

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:55 am 
Shikomi-san
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I'm planning on cross-dressing this new year. I was made a black hakama, but it's too short and I don't think a full length kimono will do...

I was thinking on making myself a kosode.... but I'm not sure how to do it, neither what kind of pattern to use. Also. I've seen men dressed in hakama witht he kimono/kosode and underneath another one, is that the juban?

I suppose my enssemble should look formal, given it's new years... but aisde from that I have no idea of what to do, how to do it, and also.... how to wear it (put it on, etc)

Can someone pelase help me? :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 8:03 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Depending on how short the hakama is, you could try simply wearing it lower :roll: That would also add to the masculinity of your outfit. I'm sorry, but this is all I can give, my 2 yen >.>

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:05 pm 
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Shikomi-san
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akira sato, It doesn't matter if it looks like your kimono is too long to wear with a hakama because if that's the case you can tuck the hem of your kimono in the obi so that you can wear the hakama comfortably.

As for your second point, it depends. If the collars are like the first photo at the top of this topic then it's a juban. And if it looks as though there are three kimono (like in this topic viewtopic.php?f=15&t=12200)
then it's a juban with two kimono worn at the same time. Though most of the time the layered kimono is just faked with a second collar sewn inside of the kimono.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 9:42 pm 
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Maiko-san
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bebemochi wrote:
viewtopic.php?t=9421
I know souso likes to cross-dress, but unfortunately, the pictures in all her Photo Gallery threads are broken. :cry:


Oops
:oops:
Guess that means it's an excuse to do it again!


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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:23 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Re: Women wearing men's juban, discussed earlier in this thread. I'm starting to seriously consider this...just because they're SO MUCH LARGER. Of course they're short, too, but so are ALL juyban I've seen, and I'd probably sew some extra fabric to the hem (apart from the other alterations needed - collar and sleeves). So I'm now eyeing the ones on eBay and trying to come to some sort of decision. I'm mostly concerned about the colour - men's jyuban tend to be blue/navy (or brown), women's white, pink or red - and I don't know if the fact that the sleeves peeking out from my kimono sleeves are the "wrong" colour would gradually start to irritate me. :unsure:

I'm just so tried of browsing for women's jubans and seeing how few of them are large enogh to fit me, and how high their prices tend to rise... :(

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:33 pm 
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Onesan
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whoo finished reading this forum... I have a few questions
I'm planing to get my bf a kimono, i finally managed to convince him even though he says he'll only wear it on Halloween and Anime Expo... and a modeling session for our friend Hong.... but at least its a start...

1. What are shoes called for the formal men's kimono?
2. How many Koshi Himo and Datejime will i need?
3. Will he need a hadajuban as well?
4. How does the men's kimono fit into the Hakama? I'm imagining my hakama from kendo (its like pants.... its not a full skirt like the old days... so would a mens kimono need to have a slit down the middle of the back?
5. Is there much of a difference between men's koshi himo and woman's? I noticed on ebay that they sell both but other then color i'm not seeing the difference

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:11 pm 
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Maiko-san
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@polinah

I don't call myself a total expert, but I'm bored so I'll try my best to answer. haha

1. The men's zori are called setta [雪駄]. They can come in the same type as women's zori (like vinyl, straw, etc). You can wear them with formal outfits. (At least.. I'm pretty sure you can.)

2. For the most part, I think it's 1 koshihimo for the juban, and then 1 for the kimono. Not sure if men use datejime, since there's nothing to really hold in place like women's kimono?

3. Yes. Think of hadajuban as the under layer for all things kimono, and that you wouldn't want sweat coming through onto your outer layer! haha

4. (Get ready for a lame drawn-by-souso diagram. ewww)
Image

As you can see, you can kind of tuck the back of the kimono up into the obi, and it pulls the whole thing up.
This is often used when wearing the divided-type hakama (So the kimono doesn't hit the middle of the pants.) Then, you just wear your hakama over the tucked kimono.

If it's the skirt-type hakama, just put the hakama over the hanging down kimono. No need to tuck.

5. Men's koshimo are pretty much just... men's colors. If you want to wear women's koshihimo with men's kimono, it's just be like a man wearing pink underwear. Or that's how I'd think of it. :D




There's a pretty good video of a man dressing himself. You can see what he does, since he does a really good, quick job.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic7O0FxVZV8

Something to note, is that I think he uses a velcro type koshihimo.


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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:15 pm 
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Onesan
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Thank you very much Souso ^.^ this is very helpful I can now begin measuring him ^.^ and looking for items ^.^

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:29 pm 
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First Mate Boobie-san (Mod)
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I do hope your boyfriend will change his mind, and he might once he has it on.

I helped dress a friend of mine in my boyfriend's formal outfit at an anime convention this past summer, and although he felt awkward the first 5-10 minutes, once he walked around in it for a while and got all sorts of compliments from people other than us kimono fans that were there, he was hooked. Looked really good in it, too! I'd say an anime convention is a great place to start out with it.

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:58 am 
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Onesan
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I hope so ^.^ I would be a very happy girl

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:20 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Ages ago somebody asked about the fluffy pompom things that hold men's haori closed. They're called haori-himo.


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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:54 am 
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Maiko-san
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I came across this amazing kimono on Ichiroya, and am wondering whether anyone knows whether this is a kimono that would actually be worn, or whether it's a costume/stage wear. It certainly is suggestive of stage wear with the very kabuki-esque characters on it, and I've never seen a man wearing a kimono with any kind of image on it like this. Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:00 am 
Maiko-san
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akira sato wrote:
I was made a black hakama, but it's too short


If dressing the hakama lower doesn't make it long enough, you can also add about 2" strip of a contrasting fabric to the bottom hem and then it will look like Edo period samurai's travelling hakama. I would make it a more subtle contrast than black and white. Some time ago, I scanned in a picture <sigh>. Wish I could find it!

Here is one example from the costume museum:
http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukusyoku/kosode/images/154-b.gif


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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:06 am 
Shikomi-san
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So, could a man's juban be worn outside and still be seen as acceptable? My husband is really picky and the one yukata he liked sold out this morning :( We will be going to Kyoto in late June, so we want to find something light but still acceptable to wear in public. Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:09 am 
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Maiko-san
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If it's a juban that looks enough like a yukata then it might be ok, but many men's juban

* lack an okumi
* have designs only on the back, or designs that are different from the all-over designs of yukata
* are the wrong colour for yukata
* have collars that are a different colour to the rest of the garment
* have sleeves that are different fabric
* are made from a fabric that would be unsuitable for yukata, such as wool or something too thin for an outer garment

On the whole I think it's likely to be obvious. Perhaps you could buy something in Japan?


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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:35 pm 
Maiko-san
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You should be able to get an off-the-rack yukata, maybe even a set, around that time, or even visit a flea market for something used.


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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:43 pm 
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Shikomi-san
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This is a serious question and by no means trying to be funny. Just something my bf came up with. Are these kimonos and hakama worn normally with any underwear? I know about juban, but underwear in the sense of western form (boxers or briefs)? Again I'm not trying to be funny here. It's a serious question my bf asked me the other day as I went through my yakuta collection and was curious about it after I spoken to him how geishas and maikos don't wear panties because it will create a crease on the kimono (pantie lines) and distorted the clean lines of the ensemble. My bf was curious if men had to do the same for their formal kimono as well. :coy:


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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:03 am 
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Maiko-san
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cubanita_maiko wrote:
Are these kimonos and hakama worn normally with any underwear?


Yep. Men are supposed to wear suteteko and hadajuban under their juban (or under the yukata). Suteteko are kind of like long (just below the knee) boxers, and a hadajuban is a light shirt sort of like an open-front t-shirt with slightly longer sleeves. You cross the 2 sides of the front over each other the same as with a juban or kimono/yukata, but there's no sash to keep it closed. Instead of suteteko you could also wear a fundoshi or rokushaku, which is basically a loincloth tied so that when it's worn it resembles a thong.

An image of 2 young gentlemen wearing fundoshi can be seen here.

A photo of suteteko is here

And a hadajuban can be seen here


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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:21 am 
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Shikomi-san
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fuuga wrote:
cubanita_maiko wrote:
Are these kimonos and hakama worn normally with any underwear?


Yep. Men are supposed to wear suteteko and hadajuban under their juban (or under the yukata). Suteteko are kind of like long (just below the knee) boxers, and a hadajuban is a light shirt sort of like an open-front t-shirt with slightly longer sleeves. You cross the 2 sides of the front over each other the same as with a juban or kimono/yukata, but there's no sash to keep it closed. Instead of suteteko you could also wear a fundoshi or rokushaku, which is basically a loincloth tied so that when it's worn it resembles a thong.

An image of 2 young gentlemen wearing fundoshi can be seen here.

A photo of suteteko is here

And a hadajuban can be seen here



I was baffled by my bfs' question so I had to ask. Thank you so much for replying. :)


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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:08 am 
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Minarai-san
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I have read on wikipedia, that igusa-zori with "bulrush" cover which look like tatami are not worn with kimono, only straw (or artificial straw made of vinyl) zori can be worn with kimono.
Would it be a big faux-pas then to wear igusa-zori with informal men's kimono?
I have bought igusa-zori because I didn't know there was a difference between igusa and straw zori.

Igusa-zori:
Image
Straw zori (vinyl):
Image


Last edited by onnagata on Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:48 pm 
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Shikomi-san
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Sorry if my question seems silly, but besides the juban (which has been discussed already)... how wearable is men's stuff for women?

A friend of mine wants to sell his ensemble and rather to someone he knows (plus, he doesn't trust ebay to get close to the price he paid when he purchased it). Now I wonder, are there any pieces that could be worn by me as well, or easily altered so I don't get lapidated by random obatarian?

I'm especially eyeing his haori, but I read somewhere that these are easily recognizable as men's too because of their sleeves? :?

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:51 pm 
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Jimae Geiko
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You're prettymuch out of luck, nani-bird. Almost all men's items differ in a fundamental way from women's.

General color scheme: much more subdued, generally blues, grays, browns, blacks.

Patterns: Practically non-existent on most formal outer wear, deliberately masculine on juban and yukata. Obi are generally striped or have overtly masculine patterns. Hakama are either plain or, for more formal wear, striped. (Women's hakama are sometimes plain, but they are often also colorful or embroidered because they're worn for the celebratory event of graduation. I've never seen striped women's hakama, which doesn't mean they don't exist, but they're certainly not common. The stripes on men's hakama are distinct enough that I think most people would wonder why you were wearing men's pants.)

Kimono, yukata, juban, haori : sewn up, square sleeves that are a dead giveaway.

Obi : much thinner than even women's hanhaba (half-width) obi.

Hakama : Presence of a hard back-board that is absent in women's hakama.

Geta / Setta : Much more wide and square, straps are masculine in color and pattern.

Even with men's odori (dance) wear, which is a lot more colorful and often wildly patterned, the shape and make of the items will give them away as being for men. People versed in kitsuke can also generally tell when an item is for stage wear as opposed to everyday wear.

This is not to say that someone well-versed in kitsuke can't bend the rules. I really like otoko-poi ("like a man") styles, myself. (I have worn netsuke / inro with women's obi, worn a kaku obi in addition to a hanhaba obi, and wrapped a kaku obi so that it mimicked a hanhaba obi, among other things.)
However, this isn't something a beginner should tackle. Introducing men's wear items into your wardrobe is something you can do after you've mastered women's kitsuke fairly well.

As for altering the pieces, it can be done, but there are a lot of limitations. For one, the subdued nature of the kimono and haori may give it away as menswear even if you can fix the sleeves. And it's doubtful the kimono would be long enough for you to wear as a proper woman's kimono -- unless your friend was a great deal taller than you are. Remaking hakama would require that you reconfigure the back-board, removing the stiffener and reshaping it. It would be difficult to turn a kaku obi into anything wide enough for a women to wear...most of the time men's obi are woven, rather than sewn together. Even if the obi was sewn, you'd need to resew it to double its width, and then, you'd probably lose all the length you would need.

Definitely a project for someone who was dedicated, patient, a talented seamstress! And then, after all that work...it would probably still look like you altered men's wear.

I'm sorry to be discouraging, but I don't want you to spend money on something you ultimately wouldn't wear.

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:56 pm 
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Shikomi-san
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Now I've been reading this thread I wondered if the following haori I found are for men or women. I think they're for women (comparing them to the images in this thread), but I wanted to check as I don't have any experience with haori yet!
Scroll down a bit on each page to see the photos:
first haori
second one
third one


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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:39 pm 
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First Mate Boobie-san (Mod)
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Definitely all for women; the inside seams near the armpits are open in all 3. That's a pretty big give-away. And the design; I don't think many men's kimono are going to have a flower pattern like that. They're more likely to be solid.

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:08 pm 
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Shikomi-san
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Thank you very much for your detailed answer, bebemochi!

I'll follow your advice and not challenge myself with something that difficult, I was hoping there might be one or two items that you could sneak into your outfit without anyone noticing, but after what you told me I'll definitely stay away from men's stuff for some time. :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:30 pm 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 4:01 am
Posts: 821
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Fav. Maiko: MameHaru of Gion Kobu
Fav. Motif: Yabane, Mandarin Ducks
I actually just recently gave a men's juban some "gender re-assignment surgery", and it turned out well. The sleeve length is luckily the same as my kimono I was wearing with it, but I think it was successful because:

1. It had an all-around print that wasn't "too masculine", that is, it was a swirly print of ancient pottery....not as gender specific as perhaps manly dragons and tigers.

2. I used a korin belt to secure it around me. Like some others here said, its very tricky to find men's juban that will fit a female form. So it wasn't pretty underneath, but turned out okay in the end after some fussing.

3. I did a LOT of resewing in the sleeves. The armpit was already damaged on one side, so that was easy, but the other side needed surgical precision and lots of patience. I used my female juban as reference as to how high the slit goes up.

4. I fixed up the collar and I added a chikara nuno. Luckily the collar was also already damaged and I could actually slip in a collar stiffener (the word escapes me now) no problem. The chikara nuno helped keep the collar which probably was not meant to go back that far stay back.

And most importantly...

5. It is underwear and is barely seen usually. :P

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:37 pm 
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Minarai-san
Minarai-san

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:42 pm
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Location: Germany
Fav. Motif: Sho-chiku-bai
I would like to know how important it is to use a contrasting kaku-obi.
I've seen a nice navy yukata to buy, but the only kaku-obi I have is navy too.
Is it ok (I mean really ok, not only to say "It's casual, anything is ok") or is it better to get another obi?


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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:05 pm 
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Shikomi-san
Shikomi-san

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:01 pm
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Location: Switzerland
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To answer your question onnagata, I think it's quite fine to wear a kaku obi of the same color as the yukata. I've done it already (pic here).

But then I would perhaps not do it with something more formal. This is all personal but I wouldn't wear an obi that blends too much with the kimono I'm wearing. If the obi's the same color I would make sure that it's at least brighter/darker than the kimono or that it's got some sort of design that will make it stand out.

This is personal again, but I usually choose a contrasting color or design because I like that my obi stands out.

I don't think there's some kind of (very clear) rule to define what obi should be worn with which kimono (except for the formality in fabric and design), seeing as men's kitsuke is much less standardised than women's.

In short, I'd say that you should wear what you fancy.

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:13 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:21 am
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I agree with Selwyn. With yukata it's more flexible, but with kimono, while the rules are nowhere near as complicated as for women's wear, the obi should complement the colour of the kimono or even contrast, but not blend in.


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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:31 pm 
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Furisode Shinzo
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I'm just wondering where in the world one could find kimono for larger men, and by larger I do not mean taller. :ohno:

My BF is a bit chubby but has a RABID interest in getting all sorts of men's kimono - he is completely supportive of my kimono hobby and would LOVE to participate in it with me by wearing kimono, too - but he doesn't think he could find anything to fit him! :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:10 am 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:21 am
Posts: 1121
It really depends on his size and what type of kimono you're looking for. You can find quite large yukata fairly easily, but if he's particularly large you may have to have a kimono custom made. Being "chubby" might not be a problem if he isn't too tall, though.


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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:39 am 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:46 pm
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Location: Marianske Lazne, Czech Republic
Fav. Maiko: Wakana, Ayano
Fav. Geiko: Wakana, Kotoha
Fav. Motif: Bamboo, Matsu, Ume, Sakura
Does anybody have some size chart for men's kimono / yukata, please?
I have bought a yukata at Ichiroya which fits my hight but is way too wide for me.
Or maybe a pattern so I can sew my own yukata...

Thanks a lot! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2009 8:55 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 11:41 am
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Location: Finland, -09 area
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stepan san, about yukata patterns. It'll be really hard to find one. Because you don't need one. Every piece will be rectangular and the seams are straight. The only problem will be to cut the bolt into the pieces you will need (not a problem since the sizing is easy)... and then it's mostly about knowing what to connect to where and at which point. There is a lot of information about sewing women's yukatas and kimonos here, you should be able to easily follow and make a few alterations to make it a man's yukata (mainly, shorter migoro for no ohashori, shorter sleeves with non-existent curve, sleeves sewn to the body)...

I bet you could make your current yukata narrower by opening the side seams and taking in some fabric, then resewing. If there is really too much fabric, you would need to take in too much (more than 3 inches of allowances per seam) and the result would look funny (take the placement of the okumi for inctance) so loads too much width -> take in at side, okumi, and even back centre seams.

The side seams are easy to manipulate since they aren't affected by the collar. Manipulating the okumi and back seams will require removing the collar, and this kind of extensive narrowing job would help you in possible future yukata sewing projects.

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:19 am 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 4:46 pm
Posts: 1507
Location: Marianske Lazne, Czech Republic
Fav. Maiko: Wakana, Ayano
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Fav. Motif: Bamboo, Matsu, Ume, Sakura
Peccantis wrote:
stepan san, about yukata patterns. It'll be really hard to find one. Because you don't need one. Every piece will be rectangular and the seams are straight. The only problem will be to cut the bolt into the pieces you will need (not a problem since the sizing is easy)... and then it's mostly about knowing what to connect to where and at which point. There is a lot of information about sewing women's yukatas and kimonos here, you should be able to easily follow and make a few alterations to make it a man's yukata (mainly, shorter migoro for no ohashori, shorter sleeves with non-existent curve, sleeves sewn to the body)...

I bet you could make your current yukata narrower by opening the side seams and taking in some fabric, then resewing. If there is really too much fabric, you would need to take in too much (more than 3 inches of allowances per seam) and the result would look funny (take the placement of the okumi for inctance) so loads too much width -> take in at side, okumi, and even back centre seams.

The side seams are easy to manipulate since they aren't affected by the collar. Manipulating the okumi and back seams will require removing the collar, and this kind of extensive narrowing job would help you in possible future yukata sewing projects.


Hello Peccantis, thank you very much for the advice!
I hope my freind will help me with resewing. As you say, it should not be much trouble.
Thanks again! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:45 pm 
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Minarai-san
Minarai-san

Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:42 pm
Posts: 387
Location: Germany
Fav. Motif: Sho-chiku-bai
Thanks to you, selwyn and James. I've totally forgotten that I've posted a question in this thread :oops:

I have another question about obi: Are heko obi for yukata only or can you wear them with informal silk kimono, too?


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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Men's Kimono
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:54 pm 
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Shikomi-san
Shikomi-san

Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:01 pm
Posts: 114
Location: Switzerland
Fav. Motif: Saya
You can definitely wear heko obi with informal silk (or other fabric) kimono. But you've got to make sure your whole outfit is informal as well.
That means no hakama and only informal haori.

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