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 Post subject: Maiko vs. Geisha Kitsuke- very detailed, photo intensive
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:06 am 
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Shikomi-san
Shikomi-san

Joined: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:48 am
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Location: San Diego, CA
As a fairly new person to this site and these boards, I have found so much wonderful information!  Without this site as a resource, I would be totally lost in my quest to learn more about maiko and geisha kitsuke.  However, I must admit that there is so much information in so many threads, that I find it daunting to assemble all the facts I am looking for.  So... here I am, trying to create a comprehensive list to help others who are just as confused as I have been!

In my (novice?) opinion, it is much easier to compile information on maiko kitsuke, and there are more photos posted by members of maiko than of geisha.  I have found less detailed info on geisha kitsuke, (like color of their juban, etc...) and that is what I have wanted ot learn about.  Anyway, without further ado, here is my compilation of maiko/geisha kitsuke differentiation.

There are many holes in my chart, and I will be so grateful for those of you 'in the know' to help me out!  I would love for this list to be as detailed as possible, with photos, etc...  I will continually update my first post to reflect new information that you add!  (And I will most definitely give credit where it is due!)

Thank you so much.  I am constantly in awe of how knowledgable you all are about kimono, etc...

HAIR

Maiko have their natural hair dressed in various traditional styles according to their position in the Maiko hierarchy. Junior Maiko wear the Wareshinobu style and progress onto the Ofuku style as she becomes a senior Maiko. As a senior Maiko, she has the privilege to wear her hair in the Katsuyama style and Yakko Shimada style for special occasions, and finally the Sakkou hairstyle, right before she becomes a Geisha. The maiko of the Pontocho hanamachi wear an additional 5 hairstyles through the duration of their training: Umemodoki, Oshidori no Hina, Osa Bune/fune, Mizu/sui Guruma and Ikiguruma. (From www.immortalgeisha.com/faq_geisha.php )

Photos of these hairstyles can be found here:
http://www.immortalgeisha.com/hairstyles_maiko.php

Geisha wear a katsura (wig) in the Shimada-mage style (or traditional style of choice).  (From www.immortalgeisha.com/faq_geisha.php )


KANZASHI

Maiko wear a wide variety of kanzashi such as tsumami kanzashi (also called hana kanzashi) made from habutae silk. They also wear kushi or tenkazari with silk. These ornaments generally correspond with the relevant season and month.  (From www.immortalgeisha.com/faq_geisha.php )

Examples of hana kanzashi: Image
Image

Geisha only wear a few pins and a kushi in their hair which are generally plain in style and not covered in silk.  The exception being a Geisha performing a formal tea-ceremony, where she may wear a small hana-kanzashi. Please view the kanzashi calendar for further information.  (From www.immortalgeisha.com/faq_geisha.php )

More on kanzashi and kanzashi calendar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanzashi

*** I would like to add about the red material that is incorporated into the maiko hairstyle.  Right now the correct term for it is escaping me!***


MAKE-UP

Please refer to the fantastic, explicit descriptions and diagrams found on:  
www.immortalgeisha.com/faq_geisha.php  It is about half-way down the page.
But for a very brief illustration here:

Maiko: Image

Geisha:  Image


NAPE OF NECK

"Both maiko and geiko use two stripes, and three for formal occasions."  (From IG forums member GeikoSera.
Examples:
Image
Image


HANERI (COLLAR)

This refers to the collar on the juban.

Maiko:  With the kimono, Maiko wear a thick heavy embroidered collar. The collar starts of predominately red, with a smattering of white and silver patterns on it, and as she increases in age and experience, it slowly turns to white. The back of the collar though remains red until she turns into a Geisha.  (From http://www.immortalgeisha.com/faq_geisha.php )

Geisha:  A Geisha wears a wide, yet simple white collar.   (From http://www.immortalgeisha.com/faq_geisha.php )

With the collar, the neck is seen as a very sexy part of the body on women- a geisha and maiko can get away with pulling their collars back heaps due to the nature of their work (their image is everything to them, and since they are almost always officially single (as geisha cannot get married and still retain their geisha title) they can get away with a lot more than what an ordinary woman would be able to do).  (From IG Forums member Tokis-Phoenix.)

Example of a maiko/geisha collar dip vs. a 'regular' collar:
Image
Image

KIMONO UNDERWEAR

Most of us are used to the sheer underskirt, and the skirt/slip.  However, if you want to be REALLY authentic...   (*** and I am assuming this refers to maiko as well?)

They wear a cloth undershirt on top, and...  
"Geisha do not wear underpants...  Since the kimono is pulled fairly tightly over the hips, geisha think the line made by the elastic looks lumpy.  Also, answering nature's call in kimono is difficult enough without struggling with panties.  Instead, the most intimate layer of underwear is the traditional 'koshimaki,' a yard-wide, two-yard length of thin cloth, silk or nylon, that is simply wrapped around the waist."  Liza Dalby, "Geisha", pg. 105.  (c) 1998


JUBAN (full-length under-kimono)

Maiko:  A maiko's juban is almost always red, sometimes with some white or pink patterning in it, but you never see maiko wearing green or blue juban.  (Info from IG member Tokis-Phoenix )
Example:  photo taken by IG Forums member Kotone on a Kyoto trip:
Image
(More of her photos can be found here: http://www.immortalgeisha.com/ig_bb/vie ... php?t=4825 )

Geisha:  "Red is the main color for juban that geisha wear- red is considered a very erotic/sexy color for a juban, while white (the collar) is seen as a mature or formal color for a juban.
So with the juban, the geisha is combining sexyness with womanly maturity, which is partly what her image is about.
I can not find it in writing, but i have never seen a real geisha wear a juban other than red- however because i can't find it in writing, i cannot say that geisha don't wear any other colors."  (From  IG Forums member Tokis-Phoenix.)


KIMONO

Maiko kimono is a noisy (yet tasteful) and colourful affair. She wears a hikizuri kimono which has the long furisode sleeves that hang down near her ankles. The upper half of her sleeve will have a tuck along the width, and her shoulders will also have a tuck.  (From http://www.immortalgeisha.com/faq_geisha.php )

"Maiko wear folds in their furisodes shoulders and sleeves- this harks back to the days when a maiko could be as young as 5 years old.
It is traditional for children in japan to wear folds in the shoulders and sleeves of their kimono, as it helps prevent parents having to fork out tons of money to pay for new kimono everytime the child grows, but instead the folds can be lessened as the child grows so they can grow into a kimono that would be otherwise too big for them.  If you are going for an authentic maiko look, its best to incoporate the folds into your maiko furisode."  (From IG Forums member Tokis-Phoenix )

Example of the tuck/fold: Image

Geisha wear the much more refined hikizuri kimono with shorter sleeve length or homongi, if she is not wearing the traditional hairstyle and make-up. Generally, the kimono will be of one solid colour with a subtle pattern towards the bottom.  (From http://www.immortalgeisha.com/faq_geisha.php )

"Some of the most commonly used kimono types a geisha will wear are houmongi and tsukesage- these are formal kimono types, their name refers ro the placement of design on the kimono, they make ideal kimono for formal visting kimono (which is what a geisha will do a lot of).
Houmongi is more formal than tsukesage- there are of course many other types of kimono a geisha will wear like tomesode or iromuji, but tsukesage and houmongi are very versetle kimono for the geisha day to day life."  (From IG Forums member Tokis-Phoenix.)


OBI  

Maiko:  A Maiko's obi are long and wide, generally covering a good proportion of her torso from her hip bone to her breast. The back of the obi bow dangles down to her ankles.  (From http://www.immortalgeisha.com/faq_geisha.php )
Also, a regular maru obi is approx. 3.5-4 m. long, whereas a maiko's obi will be 5+ m. long.        

"The maikos main obi's style is called the darari.  You will not see any maiko wearing styles like furisode bow styles like the bunko style."  (From IG Forums member Tokis-Phoenix )

On the maiko's darari, the bottom part of it always has the mon of their house.  (From IG Forums member aimee.)  (To read more about mons, go here: To read more about mons, go here: http://www.immortalgeisha.com/faq_geisha.php#faq12 )

Example of the darari style obi tie:  (taken by Kotone while in Kyoto)  You can also see the mon at the bottom of the obi.  
Image  
Also see photo above by Kotone that I referenced with the juban color for maiko.

Geisha wear a narrower obi of a more subtle pattern and generally tie it in the refined Taiko box bow.  (From http://www.immortalgeisha.com/faq_geisha.php )        
Example of Taiko/drum box bow:
Image

"Geisha : A Living Tradition" states that geisha wear their taiko bow lower than the average woman, so it's not just a normal taiko (but close).  (From IG Forums member aimee.)

"When a geisha ties her obi in the otaiko/drum bow style, she ties it lower down on the waist than what an ordinary woman would do- this is considered very womanly and often sexy in japan with kimono."  (From IG forums member Tokis-Phoenix.)

OBIAGE

All I know is that the younger you are, the more obiage you show.  And don't maiko and geisha wear more showing in general anyway?

Maiko:  A maiko's obiage is red with silver designs.  (From IG Forums member aimee.)



OBIJIME

???   ***   ???
I read in another thread that normal obijime are about 1.5 cm wide, whereas maiko obijime are 2+ cm wide.  Is that true?

TABI

Maiko and Geisha wear traditional tabi- the ones with clasps in the back.  Only white tabi are acceptable!  

Example of traditional tabi:
Image  
(From www.karankoron.com )

"Geisha, especially the dancers, go through tabi at the rate ballerinesas wear out their toe shoes.  They have them custom made and order them by the gross.  Geisha think nothing is so tacky as wrinkled or faintly grayed tabi."  -Liza Dalby, "Geisha" pg. 104 (c) 1998

FOOTWEAR

Maiko wear Okobo - high, unpainted wooden clogs that have a bell on the inside of them.  (From http://www.immortalgeisha.com/faq_geisha.php )

Example: Image
(From www.karankoron.com )

Maiko will wear black laquered okobo in the summer, and wood ones for the rest of the year.  (From IG Forums member aimee.)

Geisha wear either zori or geta, depending on the occasion.  (From http://www.immortalgeisha.com/faq_geisha.php )
*** (But isn't it usually zori for any occasion other than everyday-wear?  Does that change in summertime?)  ***

Example of zori:
Image


Have I forgotten anything?  To anyone who contributes, thanks in advance for your help!!!  

:)


Last edited by Beatlesgirl on Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:46 am 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

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I'm not an expert either, but here's a few things.

(I agree it's much easier to have everything organized! perhaps you could edit the top thread when everything is confirmed, etc?)

isnt the fabric in the maiko hairstyles, shibori?  (like this: [[defunct eBay link removed by bebemochi]] ? )

I read in one of my books that geisha's juban is pink.

I think maiko have two neck stripes most of the time, and then 3 when they are graduating to geiko
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Geis ... -11-21.jpg

collar = haneri, this is the collar sewn on the juban, yes.

on the maiko's darari,... the bottom part of it always has the mon of their house.

what I've read  (in Geisha : A Living Tradition )is that geisha wear their taiko bow lower than the average woman, so it's not just a normal taiko (but close).  Other books have said things too about geisha tying their obis slightly differently from regular women.

maiko obiage is red with silver designs

I read in a book (I forget which sorry) that maiko obijime is 3 cm wide, and that it's often multicolored or at least brightly colored...

maiko have very expensive and larg(er) obidome (often with precious stones)  Geisha have smaller ones, or not at all.

when it comes to okobo, first year maiko wear the bright red hanao, as they graduate up the ranks, their hanao change until they become a geisha.

with okobo, the black laquered ones are for summer, the plain wood ones are for the rest of the time.

geisha can also wear yukata and other things, not just fancy kimono. They'll only get fully dressed up in trailing kimono and white-makeup and wig, etc, when they are specifically asked to.  They don't wear white-makeup, etc, unless they are also wearing the wig.
most often you will see a geisha without a wig, and in more subdued makeup.

first year maiko only paint their bottom lip.  most often maiko and geisha do their own makeup, hair and wigs... but when maiko graduates to geisha, she is helped.

the large seasonal kanzashi are mainly for maiko... geisha never wear them.

on the hairstyles, maiko usually have their hair done only about once a week, because it takes a long time to do, so they have to sleep on a big block-like pillow to keep their hair done.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:41 am 
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First Mate Shiba-san (Mod)
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A couple of things about geiko:

They only wear the make-up when they are junior geiko, dancing, or formal occasions.

I think the juban can be any colour but the collar is always white. I've seen a geiko with a red juban.   Here are my photos:

Image

Image

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:09 pm 
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Onesan
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Tokis- I know what knot you're talking about- I posted a thread about it a while ago. It was on one of the dress-up sites with a girl dressed as a geiko for tea ceremony, right? At least I think that's the one. I'll try and find it again.
I wish that I could tie my obi lower on my hips- however this doesnt work so well beings as my hips are so curvy. My mom thinks I'm crazy for wanting to hide my "great figure". hehe. I'll have to work on incorporating other giesha elements.


Last edited by SONGBIRD516 on Mon Sep 25, 2006 3:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:43 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Its all so informational!!  :)

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:31 pm 
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Maiko-san
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aimee wrote:
I think maiko have two neck stripes most of the time, and then 3 when they are graduating to geiko
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Geis ... -11-21.jpg



I don't beleive this is the case. Both maiko and geiko use two stripes, and three for formal occasions.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:37 pm 
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Maiko-san
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I think it's three _when_ they are graduating, ie, actually for the graduating event (when they have the black formal kimono )

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:12 pm 
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Maiko-san
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It's three for very formal occasions and festivals, and two for everyday.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:15 am 
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Maiko-san
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Maybe they should be tigers.  :D  The more stripes, the better!  :D

[Sorry, had to.]

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:21 am 
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Maiko-san
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Miharu wrote:
Maybe they should be tigers.  :D  The more stripes, the better!  :D

[Sorry, had to.]
Does this mean Tigger and Tony the Tiger would be dannas?   :?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:41 am 
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Maiko-san
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I was actually singing " Hey Tony" while I was writing that post!  :D

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:45 am 
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Maiko-san
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"Pontocho geisha!  They're grrrrrrrrreat!"


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:49 am 
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Maiko-san
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"If I could I would be you"  <- I like that line!  :D

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 3:45 am 
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desertlily wrote:
"Pontocho geisha!  They're grrrrrrrrreat!"


:)  LOL!  That was so funny.

Also, I am planning to update the first post ASAP.  I hate that work and life get into the way of what I would rather be doing... talking about geisha!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:31 am 
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Maiko-san
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If Tony is the Danna, then who is the geisha?  Nala from the lion king?  :D

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:32 am 
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Maiko-san
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I couldnt think of a girl tiger, so i used a lion lol. =^.^=

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:16 am 
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Shikomi-san
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Whew!  I finally updated the first post with all of your added information!  However, I am still looking for more info... specifically:

A good photo of a maiko and her obiage (red with silver designs.)  I know I just saw one on a post here within the past few weeks, and I can't find it now!

I need more info on shibori, and a good photo (not one that I already have here, although some do show the shibori well.)

Thanks again for all your info!  If anyone has anything else to add, I would definitely appreciate it!  :)


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:21 am 
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Maiko-san
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Though not geisha here are some close ups of my Kimonos shibori.

Image



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:01 am 
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Geiko-san
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Please go here: http://www.immortalgeisha.com/ig_bb/vie ... php?t=4042

It includes definitions of various shibori styles and other dyeing techniques.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:23 am 
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Shikomi-san
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I think I misunderstood... what is the piece of red fabric that maikos put in their hair called?  That's what I need info on.  Why they do it, what it signifies, etc...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:08 pm 
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Beatlesgirl wrote:
I think I misunderstood... what is the piece of red fabric that maikos put in their hair called?  That's what I need info on.  Why they do it, what it signifies, etc...


What you want is kanoko shibori. If you look in the Kitsuke Knowledge Bank you'll find a kanzashi thread. There you will see a kanoko shibori.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:56 pm 
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Shikomi-san
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I know that maiko wear A LOT of kanzashi, whereas a geisha is far more subdued.  What kanzashi is appropriate for a geisha?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 3:51 pm 
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Shikomi-san
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anyone?  anyone?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:10 pm 
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Quote:
*** I would like to add about the red material that is incorporated into the maiko hairstyle.  Right now the correct term for it is escaping me!***


Are you thinking of kanoko? [鹿ãÂ

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It might be nice to add what colors and designs of kimono can be worn during which seasons.

I think this is a great idea!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:04 am 
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This is great theres so much info! thanks! :lovelove  :lovelove


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 Post subject: Re: Maiko vs. Geisha Kitsuke- very detailed, photo intensive
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:08 pm 
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Does anyone have anything on maiko hanao---how they change with rank? I haven't been able to generalize because all the pictures I've seen have mostly been obi-up(yes instead of waist up, lol).

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko vs. Geisha Kitsuke- very detailed, photo intensive
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:20 pm 
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This thread should answer your question:
Question: The Colour of a Maiko's Okobo Straps

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko vs. Geisha Kitsuke- very detailed, photo intensive
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:47 pm 
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Shikomi-san

Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:24 am
Posts: 15
Fav. Maiko: Unsure
Fav. Geiko: Sayuri
Fav. Motif: Exotic Bingata
I was happy that the red kimono was mentioned, since I saw that in the Memoirs of a Geisha and wondered what it represented.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:19 am 
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Geiko-san
Geiko-san

Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:56 pm
Posts: 1870
Location: Dreaming bout kimono
Fav. Maiko: kotoha
Fav. Geiko: Suzuha
Fav. Motif: asanoha
Geimyo: Beque
Beatlesgirl wrote:
I know that maiko wear A LOT of kanzashi, whereas a geisha is far more subdued.  What kanzashi is appropriate for a geisha?


for geisha its gonna be pretty subdued. their gonna have a kushi (comb) maybe a stick. (i remember seeing one like years ago, may have been for a performance)

and a single little slower bud. (look for Umeha during the beer garden)

no ougi silver things.

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Kimono and Coffee, A life blog


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