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 Post subject: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:22 am 
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Shikomi-san
Shikomi-san

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:26 pm
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Location: ベニス - イタリア
Fav. Motif: sakura-choucho-sensu
Hello Minna!
A cultural association who talks about Japan asked me if it is possible to make a Maiko dress and make up demonstration, so I'd like to have some good tips and advices. They don't have any Hikizuri/Susohiki but they have a Kakeshita, so still good too? :? And what about the Juban? Where can we find one? And about the wig guess it's really expencive. :( Plus make up, I thought we could use some white Aqua Color, so can it be good if we don't have Shiro Nuri paste? :?

Thanx a lot in advice! :]

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:50 am 
Jimae Geiko
Jimae Geiko

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:24 pm
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Location: Netherlands
Fav. Motif: Floral, shibori, asanoha
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First of all ask yourself if you really know enough about this subject..
For example I never had oshiroi on my face nor the jar in my hand, I am going to do some reenactment as a Maiko in September but someone else is going to do my makeup ;)
Kakeshita will do the job if nothing else is around.
The juban Maiko use is a 2 piece but you won't get the proper lowhanging neckline with a regular one... Instead you could use a erisugata which should be quite sturdy.
Maiko wigs are rare, a bridal wig can make up for a Geiko's wig but for Maiko you'd have to either just do wareshinobu with their own hair or no Maiko hairstyle at all

My advice is to think this really through and ask yourself if you are really able to do this.. If not then don't do it

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:39 pm 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:47 am
Posts: 734
Location: Memphis, TN, USA
Fav. Maiko: Fukunae, Umechie, Mamefuji
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Fav. Motif: Neko, Kikyo, Shippou
Geimyo: 月子 (Tsukiko)
I'm going to have to agree with what Gikuyu said.

I don't want you to feel discouraged because this sounds like a fun opportunity, but maiko kitsuke and makeup is extremely hard. And without the proper pieces and tools - near impossible to really pull off the right look. I've been doing geiko kitsuke for conventions for about three years now, and I'm only just now feeling like I'm close to "doing it right" (that being said, there's still plenty of room for improvement!). Maiko style is even harder.

If you have ample time and resources to help you get prepared, this could work. But if this is completely new to you, I'd be cautious.

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:43 am 
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Kamuro
Kamuro

Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:01 pm
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How soon will they be wanting this? That's a LOT of cash to drop just for dress up...

And if this is for an educational presentation it's important to be as authentic as possible. If you wear a kakeshita and try to explain, "This isn't correct, but..." you're going to lose people. What if, instead of a dress-up demonstration, you brought in some individual pieces: hikizuri, maiko kanzashi, okobo, etc, and let the audience come up and walk around and touch the items?

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:18 am 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:59 am
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I'm going to agree with the others here.
I have oshiroi myself, and while it's great stuff, it's a bit of money.
For educational, geiko may be easier, but maiko, are decadent and hard to do, (henshin studios have a hard time :P) so think it through, maybe if you already had the stuff. But otherwise, I'd suggest some sort of picture slides how, since then you can really show off the real thing, makeshift a just dosnt cut it for me sorry,
Either way good luck

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:20 pm 
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Minarai-san
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Joined: Tue May 28, 2013 4:25 pm
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Geimyo: Kikyou
I agree with others. I'm working on maiko reenactment, I started a half a year ago, and still it's only begining. It requires a lot of time, work, and some cash (my case), or a lot of cash, some luck in hunting items and knowledge to recognise them correctly. It is not an easy or quick thing, if you want it to look decent.

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:37 pm 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 899
Location: Maryland, USA
I think this might be best morphed into a slide show presentation.

Then if you have any real pieces of actual Maiko attire that you want to exhibit, that would be great.

I'm not even sure my kitsuke sensei would take this on!

There are professional dressers whose only job is to dress Maiko - its that hard.


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 Post subject: Re: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:48 pm 
Jimae Geiko
Jimae Geiko

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:24 pm
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Location: Netherlands
Fav. Motif: Floral, shibori, asanoha
Geimyo: 昊蓮 - Kouren
Kikyoo wrote:
I agree with others. I'm working on maiko reenactment, I started a half a year ago, and still it's only begining. It requires a lot of time, work, and some cash (my case), or a lot of cash, some luck in hunting items and knowledge to recognise them correctly. It is not an easy or quick thing, if you want it to look decent.


I can't agree more, I may have been a bit lucky myself catching 2/3 items for a low price but anyone of us wants AUTHENTIC items and not reproductions or replica's.
And yes those items are expensive, best of the best no wonder
Still I find myself look horrible in hiki, not graceful like a Maiko at all.

The things you suggested like the kakeshita aren't the real thing though, they may act as substitutes but will be seen as she either doesn't know better or doesn't have the other items ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:11 pm 
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Shikomi-san
Shikomi-san

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:26 pm
Posts: 274
Location: ベニス - イタリア
Fav. Motif: sakura-choucho-sensu
Hello and thax to everybody for the kind replys and for the helpfull advices! :kawaii: Well I agree with all of you and asked many times to that girl to make Geiko that is much easier, but no she want Maiko at any cost! :ermum Well she has some stuff, like a Kakeshita and she even has Okobos, but I don't think they are originals, plus she told me she has a Japanese friend who can provide her some stuff, like make-up and juban, but honestly I'd like to do something else, like a regular kitsuke demonstration instead of this! :( But she told me it's not important if we don't have all the proper stuff and that she's not interested on making a replica of a true Maiko but just giving an idea to people. Really dunno what to think! :ohno:
About time this will be in the middle of October.

But honestly I don't like the idea to do something not proper right as Kimono Club! :ermum If some Japanese sees me doing this as Kimono group what they will think? :snooty

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Last edited by Pinku_Taanipu on Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:30 pm 
Jimae Geiko
Jimae Geiko

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:24 pm
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Location: Netherlands
Fav. Motif: Floral, shibori, asanoha
Geimyo: 昊蓮 - Kouren
Ifs either all authentic or not.. Easy
Personally if I even have the slightest chance of Japanese people being there aswell I go on full correct and authentic.. If I dont have the chance to come across Japanese people then I can let things be for what they are..

But does she have AUTHENTIC okobo and not those furisode ones??? ;)

She may not care, but there is most likely a audience who are going to see the things you say or show as the truth,, I'd be really careful with it

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:07 am 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:59 am
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Best way is to explain to her, that the aim of a kimono club should be to teach people the right way to do things.
I explained it recently to someone was that the Maiko and Geiko are some of the most dedicated people i have ever laid eyes upon. I respect them so much that doing some half assed Halloween look based on them just makes me cringe. It's also not just having the stuff. Wearing and putting on, a hikizuri, darai obi, the make up, etc, every aspect of the look takes serious practice. explain to her that these are real people in a real job, and by doing such an outfit with these sorts of things just procreates the awful stigma that they have had laid upon them due to the events of certain people after the world war, and the misappropriation of cultures that has been happily continued without second thought until recently.
The profession that is the Geiko is not a Halloween dress up. Its hard work, and dedication, and if you think it is just an outfit, then stop and reeducate yourself.
Also unfortunately with this people will just expect this is how it's done even if you state this is a reinterpretation. If she is desperately set on it(maybe refuse her help?). Do a Hangyoku. I don't like it for the reasons stated above, but their kimono is normal Furisode, and the musubi chidori, which is easy enough to tie.

Thats my thought pattern and reasoning anyway, plus i've seen a lot of baaaaaaaaaad jobs of it so. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:36 pm 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2012 10:22 am
Posts: 1006
I can understand your friend. To her you are the opportunity to make a dream come true that many many here on this site share. But she should consider this. An hour spent with a maiko or a geisha is expensive for many good reasons. The hairdresser, the kimono and the accessoires, not to mention all the other things. It would be much better to fly to Japan and go to a henshin studio, if she really wants to be a maiko at any cost, as you say. Or spending many hours of learning and a great deal of money into the real deal.
edit
You are the one to know better, so you can say that even in Japan one needs experts to do this and no one can do the work of a dresser, a hairdresser and put on the make up. And all these people have learned their work for years. While a maiko puts on the make up herself, she has been a shikomi for a while and even then she gets help from other people in the household.

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:46 am 
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Shikomi-san
Shikomi-san

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:26 pm
Posts: 274
Location: ベニス - イタリア
Fav. Motif: sakura-choucho-sensu
Gikuyu: she purchased on ebay some Maiko okobos who are made in china but looks exately like original ones, a good replica I can say! They are black! But we think the same exact things! No fake or close things but not as the original. :(

siren10101: honestly I really don't know what to think about this idea of her! :ohno: :pout:
I know Geisha it's a job and even quite hard, and I think the same exact things of you, but seems to talk to a deaf person! :eek: I'd like to ask her again what she really wants to do!

utsusemi honestly: I really don't know why she cares so much for Maiko! :snooty
Plus since she manage a cultural association about Japan she has the chance to go to Japan quite often, so I wonder why she doesn't go to a henshin studio and get dressed like a Maiko! :?


Thanx to all of you for the kind and helpfull replys, and my thought is the same exact of yours! I know Geisha it's a job, and that it's even hard, and I really don't like the idea to do something not original with the: "Well who cares if it's not exactely like the original one!" because kitsuke and even Geisha it's not costuming for Halloween/Carnival or cosplay! :snooty And she even told me she doesn't want an original Maiko hair style since she has just one hour of time to do all this, so she recruited a hairdresser who will do something who resemble/remember or it's close to Geisha, but...hell NO!!! :angerburst I've seen some pics of her with a friend both wearign kimonos, but not in the proper way, without any juban, all opened in the front, with fake obis and with white make up on the face, with chopsticks on their hair, big earigns and so on, looking more like a halloween/carnival costume! 8O
But I really don't know how to explain her all this without hurting her since she's always really kind to me :eek: seems to talk to a deaf person :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:06 am 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:59 am
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Just tell her, your uncomfortable about it and don't want to so she'll have to do it without you. Apologise, but stand by your decision.
^^
Best of luck

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:10 am 
Jimae Geiko
Jimae Geiko

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:24 pm
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Simply explain to her that you don't feel comfortable doing this stuff without the proper stuff.. Even if they can replaced you prefer not to
That you can do either a slideshow, normal kitsuke but otherwise just,, not if she hasnt the proper stuff


In the end its all and traditional or nothing
No in between I guess

Maybe let her read some of the comments??

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 Post subject: Re: Maiko dress up: help!!!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:12 pm 
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Shikomi-san
Shikomi-san

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:13 pm
Posts: 52
Well, first of all i wanna congrats you for that chance, thats def something you can be proud of.
But, I need to agree with the others and have to say that a Maiko Demonstration is maybe way too hard to achieve. I don't know, but maybe a full Furisode ensemble including the tie of a Large Bunko or Fukura Suzume Demonstration will do the same for the audience?
You sad you have a Kakeshita, well i guess putting on a complete wedding set on a person will have the same effect. But... do have anything else what is needed?
And it that case, you have a better knowledge and can explain those things better to a interested, but in terms of Kitsuke, ordinary audience?
Just my 2 Cents :)


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