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 Post subject: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of you?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 10:48 pm 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:28 am
Posts: 975
Location: Clovis, NM
Fav. Motif: Ane-sama ningyo, stripes
So we've been having a somewhat heated discussion on FB about KDJ UK meet ups. Here is the original question posted by Geishaface:

"We have 105 members of KDJ, granted some are no longer in the UK but we are seeing the SAME set of about 6-10 people at each meet up. The point of KDJ is to WEAR kimono! We have reduced the official meet ups to 4ish times a year because of low attendance. Why don't YOU attend meet ups? Why don't YOU set up a local meet up at an event near you? KDJ needs people wearing kimono & having fun to survive. We are only confident in organising meet ups for the core people because no one else attends. Thoughts?"

I would like to re-word it to include anyone and anywhere.

Why don't YOU attend meet ups that are within 2 hours of you. (I'm NOT talking when you live 5-6 or more hours away, but if you have a meet up happening withing 2 hours or in your city).

Why don't YOU set up a local meet up at an event near you if you're too far to attend any other events?


I would love to know people's thoughts on that because it's kinda a touchy subject for me (and several other people).

[EDIT] Adding Iyolin's questions:

What would appeal to you regarding an event and make you want to go?

If there were an established group in your area (that 2h travel zone), what would encourage you to organize an event (i.e. host, by making the plans and appropriate arrangements) for that group, held closer to your neighbourhood?


[EDIT] Adding Geishaface question:

As an unpaid organiser, what (as say a group member) do you feel my responsibilities are?

Adding another question from me:

How would you like to be notified about the events?

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Last edited by Strawberry Kimono on Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:28 pm 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:04 pm
Posts: 899
Location: Maryland, USA
I usually can't get to our local meet-ups because I work on weekends and there is no taking off during high time.

I've found over the years with groups that there is always that "core" group of people that participate and those that just belong.

I'm guessing part of the reluctance is a. the time it takes to get dressed in kimono, and b. the thought of traveling in kimono.

As much as I love wearing kimono, I usually sigh a little before getting dressed only because I know how long it will take me because I don't practice that often.

I've only been to one event of my local group (which BTW there has been a total of 2 events), but the head is a certified kimono dresser so she offers dressing before the activity.

It might encourage people if there was a pre-meet dressing session where people could get help from each other? Dunno.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:55 pm 
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First Mate Onesan (admin)
First Mate Onesan (admin)

Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:40 pm
Posts: 124
Location: West Midlands, UK
Fav. Motif: Sakura and Butterflies
I did this. Spent a day in London at the tail end of a meeting dressing someone in kimono (my kimono that I had to haul down in my case) so we could have a 'kimono day'.

This was supposed to instill confidence in a new kimono wearer, help her dress and give her confidence to walk around.

Did she turn up at the event at the weekend? Did I hear from her again?

No.

Just wanted a fantasy kimono day and I was the sucker who helped for no remuneration.

I had done such a day before for a uni student who was writing about kimono so I guess she thought she could too.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:22 am 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:15 pm
Posts: 666
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Fav. Motif: Momiji, oshidori, ichimatsu
I guess I am part of the "core" type group, but even so I have had to decline several meet ups in the past year.

The reasons in no particular order:

- I was getting married and my weekends were not my own- I had bridal showers and such cluttering my calendar.
- Due to planning to take off for 2 weeks for my honeymoon I had no vacation time to use to take off for weekday meetings as I had in the past.
- If I am having a fibromyalgia flair up I cannot sit the hour and a half on public transit or in a car it takes to get to DC. I am also less likely to be able to dress myself or walk at normal speeds, so I will be less likely to attend meet ups.

I have been stood up a fair number of times in the past even when arranging to meet up with only one other person, so I usually plan to enjoy myself with a friend I bring or my husband in kimono if nobody else shows up.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 5:07 am 
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Shikomi-san
Shikomi-san

Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 4:40 pm
Posts: 74
Fav. Motif: Sakura, Water, Chidori
Geimyo: Hatsuoki
As far as I know, there's no meet ups anywhere near me so that would be why. xD But for any meet ups in general or for other things (kimono gatherings included because I would love to go to one), it's because I couldn't get the time off work or couldn't afford to take the time off work or I have school. OTL


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 6:26 am 
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Minarai-san
Minarai-san

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 4:04 am
Posts: 447
Fav. Geiko: Norie, Miehina
Fav. Motif: ume, asanoha, seigaiha
so not really why wouldn't attend a meet up, but why i wouldn't start on just yet....

so there is no KDJ in my country yet. obviously i have the intention to eventually start one. i know a couple other people who are into kimono enough to have a few items to wear, but the reason i didnt start KDJ just yet is because one of people happen to be an unpleasant human being whom i am not sure i want to have anything to do with ( one of them is nice, but doesn't not reply to any form of communication on Facebook except like once....and we went to the same language school...granted not in the same year but its enough that its not creepy for me to contact her in my quest for local kimono buddies.....). last time i checked i was a nice person i hope.

but other resons why i havent started one is because i do feel shy about it, and i do still feel shy about going out in public in kimono though i have done it five times. next time i want to aim to avoid certain unpleasant people who ruin it for me...then ill see how it goes. it sucks not having any kimono buddies around live and in the flesh :cry: thats why i'm always on IG.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:08 am 
Jimae Geiko
Jimae Geiko

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:24 pm
Posts: 4677
Location: Netherlands
Fav. Motif: Floral, shibori, asanoha
Geimyo: 昊蓮 - Kouren
When I was still a student earlier this year most of the meetings were held in the weekends, though I could travel all over the country for free during the week I couldn't travel for free in the weekends.. I didn't have 40,- euro's for a retourticket (train) to whatever big city...

That hold me back for the most bit, now quite a bit less ^^

I do have to say that it is Always travelling more than 2 hours for me,, mostly 3-3,5 because I live on the opposide side of the country.. I'm in a lonely corner so to speak xD

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Last edited by Gikuyu on Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:32 am 
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Minarai-san
Minarai-san

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:30 pm
Posts: 440
Location: France
There's no KDJ in France and I don't feel like organizing one because I don't know kimono enthusiasts near my city... I even never met the other french members of IG :(
I already though about it I don't feel confident enough to be in a leader position for organizing anything alone. And last,I have very little spare time because studies+work are taking all my time and energy .

As for the within 2h distance I technically could be in ~2h in London for exemple but it's SO expensive. I can't allow myself going on a regular basis in a foreign country for kimono meet ups (if I had money I would not hesitate to go... I'm definitely planing-and saving money- to go to 1 or 2 kimono events in UK and Holland in 2014 :katana: )


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:54 am 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:02 pm
Posts: 505
Location: Warszawa
Fav. Maiko: Ayano
Fav. Geiko: Umeha
Fav. Motif: Shochikubai
Geimyo: 秋花 Akihana
I tried organizing KdJ in Warsaw, meet-ups are very rare though in Winter and usually we try to meet-up in summer during events and festivals, but usually people say they don't have the time - their job or everyday life seems to overwhelm them and they simply can't or won't spare the time

Personally: I'd say it's about my home situation.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:54 pm 
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Kamuro
Kamuro

Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 9:23 pm
Posts: 182
Fav. Motif: Tako, ika, uni, kurage
Geimyo: 夏潮生 Kachousei
Hell, I've shrugged off events for being too much of a pain to get to when they were fifteen minutes away on the freeway (they weren't kimono-related, but the point stands). Two hours times two is four hours spent traveling in a day, and that's a lot more than I'd personally want to bother with--and that doesn't even take into account the cost of gas or train/bus fare.

Inertia is a powerful thing. If you don't have a lot of free time to start with, and you're not unusually devoted to kimono (thus the presence of a "core" group, who are), there's a lot that can turn enthusiasm into a shrug. Dealing with the hassle of dressing, the unease about being conspicuous or inappropriate or just sloppy, the time commitment, cost, meeting a group of unfamiliar people, and so on. For some people, it's definitely worth it. Don't count on them being a majority of the people who show interest. Don't expect it to be above 1% of them, in my experience--and that goes for any type of activity.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 8:07 pm 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:28 am
Posts: 975
Location: Clovis, NM
Fav. Motif: Ane-sama ningyo, stripes
Thank you everyone for the replies. If anyone else has anything else to add, I would love to hear.

Your replied are opening up my eyes to other people's situations, but it's also showing to me that it is really a pretty much pointless and a waste of my time organizing things where I live. There is only so much of myself I can put into organizing things, and a while back I've made a decision to not waste my time. That's why I can come off as stand-offish and not friendly online, but that's because I'm sick and tired of people saying they want to meet me but never making an effort of actually doing it.

(Didn't I mention that it was a VERY sore subject for me?)

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:11 pm 
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Kamuro
Kamuro

Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 9:23 pm
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Fav. Motif: Tako, ika, uni, kurage
Geimyo: 夏潮生 Kachousei
I hear you, Lyuba-chan, general-invitation event organizing is an uphill slog and it's thankless. For socializing around a specific interest, I've had better luck infecting my friends with enthusiasm in person and making specific plans to go somewhere/do something with a few specific people whose situations work well together--rather than asking a group of people, I mean. It's sort of the bystander effect, you know? Yell HEY ANYBODY at a group and everybody'll figure someone else will answer. You can more effectively make a friend feel obligated to follow through. ;)

Strangers will probably want to know what's what, so some sort of info card is handy, but mostly if the group gets bigger it's through friends who already participate infecting THEIR friends with enough enthusiasm to participate. Maybe long-term, maybe one-shot, but it matters less since everybody's already buds.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:07 am 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:21 am
Posts: 654
2 hours?? That's a long distance to travel, especially if you're making a round trip in a single day. I doubt I'd bother just for a kimono meetup.

We've stopped doing kimono meet ups where I live for 2 reasons: lack of participation/lack of desire for anyone to organize, and lack of things to do. The second one is partly an issue of wardrobe: there's no point in organizing an outdoor activity when people don't have kimono outerwear.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:16 am 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:28 am
Posts: 975
Location: Clovis, NM
Fav. Motif: Ane-sama ningyo, stripes
James, when I lived in the UK, 2 hrs was how long it took me to get to London. In fact, 2 hrs was a standard time for travel for me and other UK members.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:54 am 
Shikomi-san
Shikomi-san

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:40 pm
Posts: 184
Location: 富士の国
time is not really so much of a concern for me. i semi-regularly do Tokyo and back in one day, which is 3 hours each way (by local rail). but whenever i tell people about those trips they are shocked at the amount of traveling, so i think James has a very valid point.

i also think the 2 hours thing might be important to consider with regards to cultures. i obviously don't know which method of transit UK KDJers take/took, but i know that rail is much more popular and convenient over there. versus having to drive pretty much everywhere in the US.

it's a lot easier to hop on a train (provided you have the money), where you can just chill and sleep, than driving yourself (in kimono!) or having to bum a ride off of someone else, which is also inconveniencing the other person if they're not attending the event. of course with driving, gas is also not cheap, either…

part of the reason i can go to Tokyo so easily/frequently is because of the train. i don't think i would be making trips so often if i had to drive myself there. (not that i can drive here anyway…)

(i think destination also matters… 2/3 hours to one of the biggest cities in the world--London/Tokyo--is much more of a reasonable trip than 2/3 hours to a slightly larger city in an otherwise rural/suburban/small city area. because there are attractions to being in London/Tokyo outside of the initial kimono/etc event, one doesn't mind the large time investment in travel.)



anyway, for me personally, my biggest problem is that although i've found my prefecture's KDJ via a blog, they have no email contact (that i can find), and thus i have no way to contact them and no way of knowing about events beforehand. i'm comfortable with my level of Japanese (though it remains far from perfect), and competent though unconfident in my kitsuke, so that's not really a problem.

the other thing is that wearing kimono, even in Japan, really stands out, especially as a foreigner, so there's the stares from external factors. there's also some internal conflict regarding the whole "as a whitey, is this really something i should be doing?" thing.




aside from kimono-specific, i have not attended nearby events for a variety of reasons, having other plans, not having money, and kind of somewhat frequently recently, being aware that i don't enjoy spending time with a few of the other people attending.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:28 am
Posts: 975
Location: Clovis, NM
Fav. Motif: Ane-sama ningyo, stripes
Teabot, have you tried using twitter to contact them? KDJ originally started as a twitter event, and there are a LOT of KDJ twitters about that are updated regularly. And if you don't have twitter, maybe getting one is a good idea if you're serious about going to KDJ events in your area.

Another note about standing out in Japan, even if you do stand out, you also have around 150-200 people attend KDJ. I wish I had that problem - standing out in a crowd of kimono wearers. In all the places where I lived before, I considred it good if 4 people showed up in kimono! When there were 10-12 people, it was already a huge success.

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Last edited by Strawberry Kimono on Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:26 pm 
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Tayuu
Tayuu

Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:45 pm
Posts: 3728
Location: France
Fav. Maiko: Umehisa, Mameharu, both Ayano
Fav. Geiko: Kotoha, Fukuyû, Ichiraku
Fav. Motif: Tsuta, Kiku leaves, Same
Being at the very tip of the country (Brest), I never had any opportunities.
That said, the two main factors for me would be :
- the cost of travel and of the activities themselves. Though I can technically afford going into a bar or a restaurant, it would be money I'd have plenty of more useful ways to spend. Similarly, I usually can eat for a whole week with what a plain restaurant meal costs. I'd know when going I'd either have to "waste" lots of money on the side for the sake of socialising, or embarrass everyone and be a spoilsports if I refused a simple eating out. This would be in addition to the (high) cost of travel itself.
Now if I had an opportunity for a meet-up in my own city in the afternoon, I'd be delighted and most certainly shell out the cost of a tea/pastry or whatever.
Guess you can tell I enjoy free activities on my spare time such as hiking or reading library books, or useful ones (knitting or other things of which I have something left afterwards).

In addition I find it very stressful to have to dress outside my place, I'm always afraid to forget a crucial tidbit and be unable to improvise one. On the other hand travelling by train fully dressed doesn't faze me, I did it once to go modelling for an art workshop 65 km away. People can say what they want.

- Timing. I work every week-end and am finished (and pooped) around 14h30, then have to go home and eat something, etc. Most activities are done or half way through by the time I'd be ready (even without dressing) and at that point I no longer consider it worth it to hurry and stress and search everywhere just to say goodbye.
I'm also self-employed, so I could take one Sunday off... only I'd have to add the money I didn't earn to the costs of the outing itself.

- Another thing is that in the past 2 years I've become more and more wary of voluntarily putting myself in the spotlight in public places, and also risking having unauthorised pictures of me floating everywhere on Internet and social media.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:29 pm 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:28 am
Posts: 975
Location: Clovis, NM
Fav. Motif: Ane-sama ningyo, stripes
Those that can't/won't travel for whatever reasons, why won't you start a meet up in your area and invite other people to attend?

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:27 pm 
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Tayuu
Tayuu

Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 4:45 pm
Posts: 3728
Location: France
Fav. Maiko: Umehisa, Mameharu, both Ayano
Fav. Geiko: Kotoha, Fukuyû, Ichiraku
Fav. Motif: Tsuta, Kiku leaves, Same
First because I don't use social media so organising it might be challenging, and second because I'm fairly certain there aren't many people who even know what a kimono is ("the white pyjamas for judo"/ naughty polyesther satin bathrobes) let alone own one.
People still recognize me as the one who wore a yukata for a summer firework display/festival 4.5 years ago. I was invited to join a mental hospital that time, and the persons with which I was still make it sound as if I'd done something such as going naked or conducting a mock black mass in public for fun.
I still don't care, but most people aren't as thick-skinned and I'd be embarrassed to organise a meetup for others to go get harassed together or generally have an unenjoyable experience.

These are my reasons and not counter-arguments to the idea. If one was organised nearby, I'd go, mostly to see if other kimono-wearers really do exist around here. Since the region is a peninsula, the only population pool is towards the east, don't have a large basin from which to draw.

The city/town is also well-known for being extremely rainy and windy.

I was planning to go to Japan Expo last year, but "life got in the way". I'd like to go next year (2014) if there are other things I can do at the same time to make the most of (the cost of) my trip. I have family near Paris I haven't seen for several years now.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:54 pm 
Jimae Geiko
Jimae Geiko

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:24 pm
Posts: 4677
Location: Netherlands
Fav. Motif: Floral, shibori, asanoha
Geimyo: 昊蓮 - Kouren
Lyuba-chan wrote:
Those that can't/won't travel for whatever reasons, why won't you start a meet up in your area and invite other people to attend?


Can't travel or won't travel is still a big difference as you know.. I understand when people say there is nothing in my area because my situation is just like that... I travel to the big cities on the other side of the country to meet up with the other members of KDJ NL, they haven't been to my area yet! Atleast not in my close area (there is nothing here where I live.. I live roughly 10km from the German border)

I wouldn't be surprised to be the only one who is able to distinguish a real kimono from a satin shiny bathrobe o.o let alone knowing to wear it in the town where I live!

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Shikomi-san
Shikomi-san

Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:22 am
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Location: Mechanicsburg, PA, USA
Fav. Motif: Ume *___________*
I'd love to be involved. To my knowledge, there's not much near me. But even if there was...I'd probably end up at least trying to attend most of them.

Reasons I wouldn't:

Work--I've made the mistake of making myself nearly critical to operations, so they tend to screw me when it comes to time off requests.

Life--Everyone in my family is insane, or randomly asking me for money. I'll always help, but sometimes helping means I can't go do fun things until next pay.

Spontaneous CSF Leak Syndrome--Puts a damper on things when it rears its ugly head.

Random bouts of crippling social anxiety--I've spent most of my life trying not to be so afraid of other people. And most of the time, I'm okay. But sometimes, for no good reason I can think of, that little voice in my head that shows up with all of the "what-if" questions gets me back where I started. So then it's hard for me to meet with people I've known for years, let alone people who just share the same interest. I can't make myself get out of the house wearing jeans and a t-shirt, let alone something that will definitely draw attention.

I get the feeling I'm not the only one who has these reasons.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:23 pm 
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Maiko-san
Maiko-san

Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:28 am
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Location: Clovis, NM
Fav. Motif: Ane-sama ningyo, stripes
You're right, Gikuyu, there is a difference between can't and won't. But if you read the rest of the replies, some people CAN'T go, and other people WON'T go. The end result is the same, so I'm just interested to know why people don't want to organize a meet up.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:26 pm 
Jimae Geiko
Jimae Geiko

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:24 pm
Posts: 4677
Location: Netherlands
Fav. Motif: Floral, shibori, asanoha
Geimyo: 昊蓮 - Kouren
Lyuba-chan wrote:
You're right, Gikuyu, there is a difference between can't and won't. But if you read the rest of the replies, some people CAN'T go, and other people WON'T go. The end result is the same, so I'm just interested to know why people don't want to organize a meet up.


I absolutly understand what you're saying ^^ I don't understand when people say they go but won't show up o.o

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:39 pm 
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Jimae Geiko
Jimae Geiko

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:27 am
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Location: Torontoland
Fav. Motif: apples, tsujigahana
From what I've learned, it's a combination of many things, and ultimately is very individualistic.

Distance/time in travel.
Two hours is far - I wouldn't go that far for many kimono events; my driving limit is about 60, maybe 90 minutes. The same on transit, unless it's something I think is amazing (like a kimono exhibit in another city). Though there are some who attend a few events that do make a trip that take 2 hours or more, it's mostly because they're taking local transit instead of express trains (more expensive).

Another issue is dressing. It seems many would love to go but can't dress themselves, and thus they need somewhere at the event to be dressed by someone else, or else they don't have enough items/accessories for a complete outfit. Or, if they have everything and can dress themselves, some are not confident enough to ride transit on their own in kimono (stares, mostly), or to drive in it. It's more fun and less 'self-conscious' if you're with at least one other person dressed that way (for many).

A recent one I've heard regarding the meetups we tend to have is that they're 'too structured' and that they need to be more like a Japanese KdJ, in that it's "meet here, walk this street/park" - there's no cost, people can come in and leave the group whenever they want, and therefore the individual is not as conspicuous and the event doesn't require conversation with people you've never met. You can just... join the group, talk to whomever you want, then leave whenever you want.

Other factors:
- cost
- available free time
- how long dressing takes
- confidence
- activity
- desire (to wear kimono, learn more, meet others, etc)


We personally don't have a 'requirement' to wear kimono to any of our meetups, just that the attendees have an appreciation for it. Many people like them but can't or won't wear them for some reason, especially outside of Japan, so this way we try to keep attendance up and still provide a welcoming atmosphere for those who do want to wear kimono. Most who cannot wear it tend to wear haori or other Japanese-inspired clothing.


As for organizing their own meet-up, I think it comes down to
- confidence
- lack of desire to lead or have the responsibility
- commitment requirements
- no one else in the area so if they won't travel who would travel to theirs
- not wanting to be the only one out somewhere waiting for others to (maybe) not show up (probably ties in to confidence)
- don't feel they are at the skill level/knowledge level appropriate to start a meet up (as they may get many questions about kimono, requests, etc that they aren't comfortable answering)
- don't want the possible disappointment that goes with organizing and then not having success


This thread has been good to read, though. I also appreciate everyone's answers and the insights.

If I could tag a question on to Lyuba-chan's: What would appeal to you regarding an event and make you want to go? and: If there were an established group in your area (that 2h travel zone), what would encourage you to organize an event (i.e. host, by making the plans and appropriate arrangements) for that group, held closer to your neighbourhood?

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 8:13 pm 
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Maiko-san
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The problem with having a KDJ the same way as in Japan as that in Japan you'll get 100-200 people showing up, so if you don't want to talk to anyone, you don't have too while still being "part" of the event. Try doing that when there is only a group of 4 (5-6-even 10) people and you'll come off as an unfriendly snob. You can't get "lost" in a group of 10 people no matter how hard you try, unlike in a group of a 100, so some kind of conversation with strangers will be required anyway.

I don't think it's possible or even a good idea to structure non-Japanese KDJ to the Japanese example. Just reading the replies above, how many will show up just for a walk somewhere? I think most people will consider it a waste of time, especially after the dressing, travel and being hungry by the time you get there, plus being able to walk somewhere whenever they want. That's why a lot of Western KDJ try to tie in the event with some other event, which will make it worth for people to go to.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 9:02 pm 
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I think the most discouraging problems I encountered with kimono meet-ups were:

-> sitting alone in a kimono, in a place people are not used to someone looking different (though I'm starting to get used to it) - also, I hate being called a "Japoneczka" which translates a "little Japanese girl". I know people don't mean anything rude by it usually, some actually think it sounds like a compliment, but it never sounds like that to me, even though I smile at it. Maybe it's just me.

-> people stating requests like "can you lend me that beautiful kimono I've seen of your page and dress me up?" I always say "no" to such requests and people tend to think I'm rude or just mean.

That's why I almost ceased to lure people into KdJ Warsaw - some think I'm a free chance of fancy dress-up that can be forgotten the minute it ends.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:39 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Uhhhhh... laziness?

(Seriously tho. I'm really too lazy)


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:44 pm 
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I'm lazy too, and that's also a big factor in why I won't (not can't) start up a meetup of my own. I have lots of other hobbies and I like sloth and unstructured time when I can get it; it's a higher priority than kimono culture.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:54 pm 
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Tayuu
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Wisteria_Gardens wrote:
being called a "Japoneczka" which translates a "little Japanese girl"
Feel lucky they actually recognise it for originating from Japan... :gah:

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:09 pm 
Jimae Geiko
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Tahanala wrote:
Wisteria_Gardens wrote:
being called a "Japoneczka" which translates a "little Japanese girl"
Feel lucky they actually recognise it for originating from Japan... :gah:


I don't think it was intended as a compliment.. I have been called "chineesje" which translates as "chinese one" before in a negative way of saying...

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:17 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Everyone, let's not get sidetracked. I still would really love to know the answers to my questions, as well the ones that Iyolin posted.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2013 11:40 pm 
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Tayuu
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My apologies, if was I tath veered off-course.
I'd be willing to attend a KDJ if:

- I had some free time beforehand to prepare all I'd need, and of course to attend
- the anticipated cost was low or even inexistent
- for a first time, for it to be structured around something enjoyable in and of itself in case few persons came or I couldn't stand them
- I had a sure, independent mean of transportation. I don't drive ; I hitch-hike a lot but never tried in kimono

I'd be wiling to organise one if:

- I already knew of a couple people interested and available, especially if the had already actually showed up for a previous event
- unless we already knew each other well, there was a specific event, Japan-related (you wish) or not, on which to piggyback ; or a genuinely interesting activity
- it was close enough from home that I'd be able to visit the location beforehand or make necessary arrangements.
- there was no upfront cost for me to pay and pray I'd be reimbursed later by the (possibly) attending members
- Preferably someone else would take the PR role

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:43 am 
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Why not attend meetups within 2 hours of me?

There are no meetups that close to me. xD The coastal area of South Carolina is pretty much devoid of most culture. If there were, I would definitely try to attend, because kimono is one of my bigger hobbies, and I'm willing to devote some time to it. That being said, when school and work are taking up 99 percent of all of my time {the other 1 percent being used for sleep}, I will put school and work before anything personal, whether it's kimono-related or not.


Why dont I set up a local meet?

I have actually done this. While I could theoretically travel up to DC for the KDJ meetups there, 8 hours of travel is actually kind of ridiculous for a one-day event {though my boyfriend lives very close to DC, so I'm sure I'll be finding myself up there}.
KDJ Grand Strand had one meeting in early summer. It was a lot of fun, but it was just me, two of my sisters, and our friend. I want to try to gather some more people through the Japanese club at my new University and have another meeting soon. I would do what we did for the first meeting and have everyone meet at my house {or another member's house} to get dressed prior to whatever activity we would end up doing. I am somewhat shy, but I'm getting much better at being in a leadership-type position, and meeting new people, though honestly exhausting, isn't as scary as it used to be.

What would appeal to me regarding an event to make me want to go?

Good people and food, haha. And depending on what I've got going on in my personal life, shorter travel distances because gas is expensive. Something well organized, too, so that I know it won't be a waste of time, or at least something in an interesting place so that if no one shows up, I can still have fun on my own.

If there were an established group in my area, what would encourage me to organize an event closer to my neighborhood?

See number 2, haha. Though my neighborhood is tiny, so I'd have to travel outside of it for there to be anything to do, anyway, unless I had people over for a tea party. Which actually sounds like a lot of fun.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:41 am 
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Maiko-san
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Sorry for the off-topic, seems I started it!

Why not attend meetups within 2 hours of me?

2hrs of driving is a lot for someone in kimono, and especially someone who doesn't have a car (so has to travel by public transport). I sometimes attended events like cons, which were even 6-8hrs away, but I've never had to travel in kimono and I don't do that anymore because of lack of time. I rarely can meet at the weekends because of some issues which makes it even more difficult.

But what is more important: I might travel the distance if I was sure the event would go smoothly and knowing that people will show up. In my vase more often than not, people didn't show up which left me with a whole day of plans basically ruined.

Why don't I set up a local meet?

I did and it turned out many people aren't really interested in regular meetings. I tried to hook up with a local Japanese club, a tea-club and other Japanese-oriented people. Some never showed up or made any contact after initial talks, some tried to make KdJ a free dress-up. And I have little free time to do it all alone - if I had someone of similar energy, who wanted to organize and help instead of just attend thing might have been different.

What would appeal to me regarding an event to make me want to go?

The fact that I knew about it. Seriously, some clubs just don't exist in the internet so I can't really go somewhere I don't know I can go.

If there were an established group in my area, what would encourage me to organize an event closer to my neighborhood?


See nr. 2


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:09 am 
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Iroko
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Why not attend meetups within 2 hours of me?

- to be honest, doing a four hour commute (2 hrs there and then 2 hrs back) is a bit too much for me in terms of time and cost UNLESS the event will last the entire day. I would not travel 4 hours to attend a 2 hour event, for example.

- weather is a concern if some of us don't have the right usumono when it's blistering hot or outerwear to protect our kimono when it's pouring down.

- cost is an issue as well i.e. entrance fees if we are visiting a museum or seeing a show, parking, petrol costs, etc. Can be worthwhile if the event is very special or long enough to justify the commute time.

- I used to work a lot of weekends or during the week just when an event happened to be on :angerburst Now, I usually have weekends available but it appears I've missed all the events that were within reasonable travelling distance :(

Why don't I set up a local meet?

I am terrible at organising meetups. I can't even organise meetups with people I'm close to very well, let alone strangers. :sigh

What would appeal to me regarding an event to make me want to go?

Preferably if there is something on (e.g. performance or show) that the event can piggyback so in case we lack conversation topics with other attendees we can at least comment on a shared experience? I'm not good at making conversation :ermum

It would be really good if it were within a 1hr commute range, but as I mentioned above, I'm willing to travel out further if the length of the event and main activity justifies the trip.

Also eating, eating is good. There should always be some sort of food and drink time during these things.

If there were an established group in my area, what would encourage me to organise an event closer to my neighborhood?

Well I doubt there are that many kimono enthusiasts in the Sydney metro area willing to venture further away than the city and Balmain :lol: , but I am attempting to get in on the International Kimono Club Sydney, so fingers crossed I will have more events to attend with fellow enthusiasts.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:01 am 
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Why not attend meetups within 2 hours of me?/ Why don't I set up a local meet?

being a gay guy and wearing female attire is not something that everyone in a group is willing to accept, and I understand that. It's different when I go out in kimono, on my own/with a friend, because I would normally go out in the evening, and to a community bar/club or area, where I feel safer. But I couldn't and wouldn't ask a group to meet me in a place like this just because *I* feel safe there. Also, the reverse would be applicable - I would not attend if I knew the meeting is in a "bashful" area.

I did try once to contact a local IG member, just before the Japanese Week here in Frankfurt, but never got a reply, hence my reluctance.

What would appeal to me regarding an event to make me want to go?

Something along the lines of Dusseldorf's Japantag - diversity of the attenders (lots of cosplayers, kimono wearers etc). For years I've been gathering up the gutts to go and meet the IGers attending there, I'd even make reservations to a hotel, and then, 2-3 days prior to the event, I get insecure and cancel everything.

If there were an established group in my area, what would encourage me to organise an event closer to my neighborhood?

Meeting in an enclosed space ( for kimono& related activities like kitsuke, tea, Quat's sewing club, or even Japanese practice, etc) would be a safer start for me.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 11:23 am 
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I have a new question :) As an admin and organiser of the UK KDJ, we are now organizing 4 meets a year.. People complained that they didn't have enough notice and wanted to save for events so now we plan them months in advance and even plan out the entire year in January. Members are free to organise events outside this, wherever they fancy.

As an unpaid organiser, what (as say a group member) do you feel my responsibilities are?

I ask this as we get complaints about the events for various reasons and to me it seems ridiculous. However we still want more participation and to keep the ethos that the group is welcoming and open for everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:19 pm 
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Jimae Geiko
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Lyuba-chan wrote:
The problem with having a KDJ the same way as in Japan as that in Japan you'll get 100-200 people showing up, so if you don't want to talk to anyone, you don't have too while still being "part" of the event. Try doing that when there is only a group of 4 (5-6-even 10) people and you'll come off as an unfriendly snob. You can't get "lost" in a group of 10 people no matter how hard you try, unlike in a group of a 100, so some kind of conversation with strangers will be required anyway.

I don't think it's possible or even a good idea to structure non-Japanese KDJ to the Japanese example. Just reading the replies above, how many will show up just for a walk somewhere? I think most people will consider it a waste of time, especially after the dressing, travel and being hungry by the time you get there, plus being able to walk somewhere whenever they want. That's why a lot of Western KDJ try to tie in the event with some other event, which will make it worth for people to go to.


My thoughts exactly, which I explained to the requester - but I figured I'd give it a try for 2014, and so I've scheduled in the yet-unpublished calendar 3 'mall meets', where it's just meeting at a different indoor mall in the city to see how it goes. Mall has a few things going for it, I guess (trying to remind myself of the positives!) - connected to public transit (no walking outside in bad weather once on local subway), easily accessible by transit, lots of room for parking if one drives, big bathrooms to change in, FREE (cost is an issue I've had complaints about) aside from transport, and places to sit (some malls have little gatherings of chairs and stuff for resting at) and things to look at and food to buy if needed. However, if no one but me or 1-2 other hardcore people who always attend shows up, then I will not do it again - totally not worth my time (unless the 1-2 other people really liked it for some reason!).


It's kind of 'scary' in a way when I look at my calendar and people say "more events please!" and I'm ending up with something every 2-3 weekends if I do everything people are looking for and event ideas I had. That's too much for me alone (cost, travel, and time [I have other things to do, too]) - especially since as the 'host/organizer', I MUST go, whereas attendees can decide to not attend if they don't want to or can't for some reason. So there's that to balance, from an organizer's POV as well, regarding why I don't do more events (thoughts I'm sure most organizers of events understand).

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:41 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Wisteria_Gardens wrote:

Why don't I set up a local meet?

I did and it turned out many people aren't really interested in regular meetings. I tried to hook up with a local Japanese club, a tea-club and other Japanese-oriented people. Some never showed up or made any contact after initial talks, some tried to make KdJ a free dress-up. And I have little free time to do it all alone - if I had someone of similar energy, who wanted to organize and help instead of just attend thing might have been different.



Oh HOW do I know what you're talking about here! I tried the same thing, even had our KDJ events put on Japan-UK 150 (which is THE place I went to find out events in the UK), but nada. Chado people in Cambridge literally looked down their nose on me when I said that I wear kimono for kimono sake, and not for tea ceremony. Japanese language groups were more interested in the language, so that was a waste of my time too. I tried to get involved with universities and cultural centers, but nothing there too.

Aoi84 and I went to SO FREAKING MANY events in 2012, that she practically lived at my house for a few month, and at each event we had business cards and postcards about KDJ, ready to explain to people what it was about. Geishaface does the same thing with the events she goes to.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:44 pm 
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Geishaface wrote:
I have a new question :) As an admin and organiser of the UK KDJ, we are now organizing 4 meets a year.. People complained that they didn't have enough notice and wanted to save for events so now we plan them months in advance and even plan out the entire year in January. Members are free to organise events outside this, wherever they fancy.

As an unpaid organiser, what (as say a group member) do you feel my responsibilities are?

I ask this as we get complaints about the events for various reasons and to me it seems ridiculous. However we still want more participation and to keep the ethos that the group is welcoming and open for everyone.

No matter how long in advance you plan, some will complain it was so early they forgot, and the reminders were too late (and too early, too.)

Unless your outings are planned to match well-scheduled events, it might be a good idea to have a little leeway in case, for example, sakura arrive early with a wonderful sun (it's an example). That way attendees know an event is upcoming and can save their pennies, even if the firm date isn't fixed yet.

In my experience the people who make you jump through hoops to cater to their desires/schedule/appropriate phase of the moon (remember, I'm talking from experience here -literally) will end up "forgetting" or deciding to do something else if you're lucky, or show up and mess your plans or heavily criticize everything if you're not.
Unless of course there is a valid reason (professional, family, medical) people so self-centred they want everyone to adapt to themselves aren't likely to feel consideration for your efforts.
[/rant]

What about a list of fixed or semi-fixed event through the year, tailored so that most types of location/duration are covered at least once through the year, and a side-list of event that could be of interest to kimono enthusiasts but for which you personally won't organise a KDJ regardless of personal attendance?


Back to the original question, first you're organising on your own free time a type of events on which you don't have a monopoly -on the contrary. In other words, everything you do is already a bonus.

Now obviously you want people to attend and be happy, so I'd say you should have to plan events meant to match the tastes or interests of a good proportion of the putative attendees annually even if each outing doesn't.
In my case, the botanical garden would trump the Japan exposition/souvenir shopping with entrance fees and booths making demonstrations to draw buyers, if I had only one to attend. Others love shopping, having souvenirs from what they did, and want the entertainment to be provided by the venue, or some might find wearing kimono is already fancy and prefer activities matching that mood: museum or concert, nice tea, etc. (Uh, I guess you know that better than I do. Sorry.)
If a few persons are only interested in activities that would put off over 90% of the other, I'd say it's too bad. I wouldn't dress up and go to a KDJ to bury myself in the basement of a library's "motor oil through the ages" collection.

One of the things I'd expect an organiser to do would be to make sure in advance the chosen venue is available and able to accept the whole group or on the contrary the handful of people that did show up, and the actual fees to plan for (maybe including hair-rising café prices -"bring your own thermos bottle or prepare that pint of blood," or similar "details" if you know of them.) That would probably be done when the schedule is established and checked a few days beforehand. Having a plan B would probably be a good idea if you're not certain sufficient entertainment exists at the chosen location.

Tips for accessing the place would be welcome if necessary and if you already know any (get out of the subway this way, the first parking lot is muddy and half a mile away, buses are few and far between, etc.)
(Now admit it, those questions were just a clever plot to make us plan our own events, weren't they? :P )

What about those who would like to attend but don't have kimono (or know so little about them they're just as likely to show up with a judo belt and a ripped uchikake?)
I don't think it is your role as an organiser to provide outfits, unless you wish your group to take that direction too. I feel formalising it would be a sure way to have items lost, stolen, stained, etc.; and eventually have a few persons get to consider you as a free dresser option.
Not that you or other members (as members, not as the organiser) shouldn't accept to bring outfits or accessories voluntarily, but I don't feel it should be one of the roles of KDJ outings. Private arrangements between attendees are a different matter; I know I'd only lend mine to people I already know and trust.

I have no idea how PR goes or even if it is mandatory (even de facto), but if you're a large group it might be a good idea to have someone for that and someone to check you haven't lost anyone. Lyuba had mentioned once having business cards to hand out, you might consider what to put on them if you still use some. There's an informational webpage too, right? (Edit: Right. In the message right before mine, whie i was typing this.) Who pays for those in terms of time and money? (For me, If I were to have some printed because I knew they'd get used, I'd do so on my own money but mention to regular attendees they can help if wished -and only if wished.
Dang. It's working.)

I'd make sure I have a single way of contacting everyone in advance (since I don't use Twitter and have no smartphone either) and it probably would be a mailing list. Then I'd make sure contact info are available for a particular event if necessary, as well as a loose schedule if there is any chance some could get lost ("They've all gone snacking and left me alone in the corn maze!")

For me, I'd also make them no-pets event unless the venue is particularly well-adapted. This is from experience too; I've seen people drawing everyone's attention to a badly trained small dog, caring only for it, and trying to heavily tweak the set schedule to cater to its perceived needs. And there were no silk kimono around. On the other hand it might help if that person already has a loud and unusual way of drawing attention to his/herself, or even be a spokeperson.
And for the record, I've also seen some who had to take their dog along but managed to do so unobtrusively, accepting it competed irremediably with the event/KDJ and dividing their care as well as possible.
(Now you're starting to understand why I didn't organise any KDJ and very few other events... :P )

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Last edited by Tahanala on Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:04 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Tahanala , just to make sure, was that the answer to Geishaface question about what you, as a group member, would expect from an unpaid oganizer of the events?

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:58 pm 
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Tayuu
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Uh, yes. At the time I had hit the "reply" button, your answers hadn't appeared yet. I got sidetracked while answering.
I'm editing my post for the sake of clarity, citing the question at the top.

To summarize, if there has to be a specific activity for the outing, make sure it is available and people could actually find each other with average adult capacities.
Let people know which activity, if any in particular, is anticipated, and a loose timetable if you plan to change places so late people can find you.
Make sure there will be something to do in case the chosen venue/activitie was cancelled (easy if you're in the city).
Don't feel bad if a few people don't like it/can't attend, you can't use your time making every single person happy.
If possible, try to make at least some for which people don't feel compelled to shell out money.
Enjoy yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:59 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Iyolin, I would love to know how your meetings go!

Maybe we can start a separate thread from the organizer's point of view :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:27 am 
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Senpai Shrimp (Admin)
Senpai Shrimp (Admin)

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I currently live in Korea and a kimono meet-up would be rather inconsiderate. While it's fine to enjoy Japanese culture in private (I've had several adult students ask me about wearing kimono), I'd be stirring up a big pot celebrating it in public. The only time I'd ever consider wearing a kimono out would be to a high-profile Japanese cultural event where it would not be unexpected. That said, I'm going to answer the following questions as if I were free to wear kimono out.

Why don't YOU attend meet ups that are within 2 hours of you.
Where the meet-up takes place definitely determines how much boldness one requires and since my confidence tends to waver, I'd most often choose not to leave my comfort zone. A Seoul KDL would be an extremely small group and require a lot of courage. When I was in Japan, however, I dressed up and shot out the door like a bullet, and spent most of the day all alone, I was so excited. Summary - it appears that my confidence is in direct proportion to how appropriate kimono is deemed to be by others. (Sad, but true)

Laziness/RL crap/unexpected priorities are other factors, as others have mentioned. I might be pumped up for a meet-up but then have a crappy week leading up to it that makes me just wanna curl up in bed all weekend.

Why don't YOU set up a local meet up at an event near you if you're too far to attend any other events?
Logically, if I'm too far from the rest to join a meet-up, then they would be too far from me to attend any meet-up I might try to organize. If the majority of the group were in Incheon, for example, it would be a challenge to convince them all to come to Seoul. Majority rules, so to speak. However, if there were a big enough event that would give them reason to make the trip, I might go for it. Someone mentioned before that it's easier to draw people to bigger cities, since it's more likely to make the long trip worthwhile.

What would appeal to you regarding an event and make you want to go?
The more appropriate the event is for wearing kimono, the more likely I'd be to commit. Even in Japan, you'd have to be pretty 'hardcore' to show up at every event in kimono LOL Personally, it doesn't matter to me how many other people will be in kimono, as long as the event is appropriate for wearing one.

If there were an established group in your area (that 2h travel zone), what would encourage you to organize an event... held closer to your neighbourhood?
I would be inclined to organize an event if there were a definite event to attend that was cheap/free and that people could simply show up to without any commitment. Anything that requires advance purchases and/or reservations ALWAYS ends in somebody (usually the organizer) paying out of pocket.

As an unpaid organiser, what (as say a group member) do you feel my responsibilities are?
Honestly, your only responsibilities are to make sure that everyone knows when and where to meet, what kind of event/locale it will be, any costs there may be and to show up. In kimono :) A good organizer makes it clear from the start what s/he will and will not be responsible for. You shouldn't have to be giving transportation information/schedules, picking people up, looking for lost lambs, paying for things or hauling kitsuke. (If someone begs a dress-up, I'd rather invite them to participate without. If they are truly interested, they will eventually show up to meetings in their own kimono. There's a difference between kimono meet-up and kimono dressing service - kimono dressers get paid LOL)

How would you like to be notified about the events?
I prefer to be notified by email. I do use social media, but it isn't as reliable.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 5:18 pm 
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Maiko-san
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seoulstar74 wrote:
As an unpaid organiser, what (as say a group member) do you feel my responsibilities are?
Honestly, your only responsibilities are to make sure that everyone knows when and where to meet, what kind of event/locale it will be, any costs there may be and to show up. In kimono :) A good organizer makes it clear from the start what s/he will and will not be responsible for. You shouldn't have to be giving transportation information/schedules, picking people up, looking for lost lambs, paying for things or hauling kitsuke. (If someone begs a dress-up, I'd rather invite them to participate without. If they are truly interested, they will eventually show up to meetings in their own kimono. There's a difference between kimono meet-up and kimono dressing service - kimono dressers get paid LOL)



I couldn't agree more lol! I don't dress anyone anymore, except my very close friends and even then it's a mutual help to each other.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:19 am 
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Maiko-san
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I actually hesitated to answer this questionnaire for a few days since I do do a lot of meet ups and I didn't want to offend anyone by accident. I have had many many more good experiences than bad experiences, but the nature of the survey makes me reflect on the bad ones (in order to understand why I might be reluctant to repeat certain experiences).

Why don't YOU attend meet ups that are within 2 hours of you?

Two hours is a bit of a stretch in travel time, especially if I have never met the person before. One hour by train gets me to DC- two hours would get me to Northern Virginia or southern Pennsylvania.

Why wouldn't I go to a meet up within one hour of me?

If I had had a strange or awkward experience with the core organizer before would be the main reason. For example: the person had asked me to drive them before when we live nowhere near each other, the person had come to dinner before with too little money to pay their portion of the bill, or the person had completely failed to show up on a previous occasion when we were to meet at an event with a set time and tickets. These are all examples that have happened to me.

Why don't YOU set up a local meet up at an event near you if you're too far to attend any other events?

I am not too far to attend other events- I am located in a metropolitan corridor. I usually like to do an event around some other Japanese cultural event so we have something to do. If there is nothing going on in the museums or on the calendar, I don't usually do meet ups.

If there were an established group in your area (that 2h travel zone), what would encourage you to organize an event... held closer to your neighbourhood?

My usual annual meet up in Baltimore is a sushi dinner during Otakon, which allows me to see people from all over the east coast. I also do at least one or two meet ups in DC a year- usually one at the Sakura Matsuri and another one dependent on when someone shouts that they are visiting.

As an unpaid organiser, what (as say a group member) do you feel my responsibilities are?

These are the things I feel are my responsibility when I organize a meet up and I expect from other organizers.

-You have to show up. This seems silly but you really need to be the place you say you will be at the time you say you will be.

-You have to have a cell phone and exchange numbers with the other members of the meet up. You should give each of them a courtesy call before leaving the meet up location if they have not arrived yet.

-If we are going to dinner as a group, you need to make a reservation, especially if there are six or more people.

-You need to be clear with everyone beforehand about the event: how much will it cost, will there be a lot of walking, etc.

It is not up to you to cater to people's whims but if there is a reasonable concern, for example, a disability which prevents a great deal of walking or a food allergy, you should still attempt to include the person in some aspect of the event.

How would you like to be notified about the events?

I receive notifications either by reading about events on IG or by receiving emails about them.


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:19 am 
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Furisode Shinzo
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Why don't YOU attend meet ups that are within 2 hours of you. (I'm NOT talking when you live 5-6 or more hours away, but if you have a meet up happening withing 2 hours or in your city).
I personally don't attend anything more than 30 minutes away. My car is a clunker and won't make the distance.
However my roomie and RedDelilah both have functioning cars. We've organized and driven to a handful of points of interest within a 2.5hour radius. The furthest one we driven to twice, because roomie's folks live up there and we can easily stop, refuel, and get dressed. We have been ruminating on grabbing a hotel room for a further drive, but that's still in the planning stages (I've already forgotten where RedDelilah wanted go to, but basically I'll go where ever she wants to go because I'm not driving.)
Attending an event that's farther away and requiring us to travel in kimono is a little tricky and takes some planning. The hardest part for me is wearing something that's comfortable and will survive the ride without becoming a huge wrinkled mess. No way would I want to spend the time getting somewhere, only to show up looking like I just crawled out of bed.

Why don't YOU set up a local meet up at an event near you if you're too far to attend any other events?
RedDelilah and I try to come up with a monthly event for our little deJack. Over the winter months it gets pretty difficult, since low cost things usually involve an outdoors aspect and that would just be cruel and unusual in midwest winter months. We try (and occasionally fail) to give lots of heads up on our FB page. If a friend is interested and ok with being our dress up doll, we're more than happy to loan out pieces. I've managed to escape the random stranger asking to borrow/be dressed. I expect, if they're not going to be completely reliant on one of us for transport/other assistance, it wouldn't be too much of a hardship to dress them.... sizing permitting.

What would appeal to you regarding an event and make you want to go?
If there were an established group in your area (that 2h travel zone), what would encourage you to organize an event (i.e. host, by making the plans and appropriate arrangements) for that group, held closer to your neighbourhood?

Points of interest, like an opening of Japanese art at a museum, are what have drawn us to make 2+ hour trips. Japanese gardens, conservatories with interesting events, that sort of stuff are usually what will get our butts into a car and make the drive.


As an unpaid organiser, what (as say a group member) do you feel my responsibilities are?
We try to keep things local for the most part. A nice park with flowers in bloom, gallery hop, the local conservatory, etc. We do a lot of repeat visits. I'm not sure if this is good or bad, since no one else attends our meets, and therefore no one else can complain that we don't have enough diversity (?). I guess I just feel responsible for finding something interesting and enjoyable for us to do while getting to wear kimono together.


How would you like to be notified about the events?
Facebook has been a pretty decent method of communication so far. :meh


I have to admit, I'm a bit lazy about our deJack. My roomie will wear pretty much whatever I want her to (she's even made a few attempts at learning to dress herself... a few). I've never lived more than 30 minutes drive from RedDelilah. Currently I live less than 3 miles from her. We are so freaking lucky to be so close together, and to have a handful of friends/family who occasionally are interested in joining our garden jaunts/gallery hops/sushi restaurant nights/whatever.
I'm pretty happy with our very small but very close (figuratively and literally) group. I'm not sure it would be as satisfying with members who were only kind of interested, and there more as hangers on, rather than someone who really wanted to get into the nitty gritty of wearing and enjoying kimono. I don't imagine it's as satisfying for those people as well; you'd always feel like an outsider, I think?

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Last edited by Quat on Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:13 am 
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Maiko-san
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tzippurah wrote:
I actually hesitated to answer this questionnaire for a few days since I do do a lot of meet ups and I didn't want to offend anyone by accident. I have had many many more good experiences than bad experiences, but the nature of the survey makes me reflect on the bad ones (in order to understand why I might be reluctant to repeat certain experiences).


I've had way more negative experiences with "new" people (NOT our core group), and I'm really hoping that this thread will shed some light on the way people think. Otherwise I won't be bothering with organizing anything again, unless it's for my close friends.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:36 pm 
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Tayuu
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i realise I've said why it is unlikely there would be any event around here, but I'd be willing to organise one if:

- At least two other interested persons I know to be reliable
- Some event to provide the occasion unless everyone is comfortable with the tought of attracting much attention just doing our own business
- appropriate weather on the forecast
- venue matching the tastes of most of the attendees
- free time on my part. The planning would be easy; I'm busy but mostly flexible. The actual meeting is another matter.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 11:30 pm 
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Minarai-san
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Why don't YOU attend meet ups that are within 2 hours of you. (I'm NOT talking when you live 5-6 or more hours away, but if you have a meet up happening withing 2 hours or in your city).
If there were meeting I could attend and not spending up to 50++ euro on travel fares+meals/activities I would definitely go
I live in a small town north of France and I don't drive . I can be in Paris within 1hour BUT it costs too much, I can be in 2h in Brussels more easily, I go to every convention I can there but never heard of any kimono meet up...

Why don't YOU set up a local meet up at an event near you if you're too far to attend any other events?
About Brussels I really don't feel confident to organize anything there because I simply don't live there. I think it would be complicated to organize anything from afar...
As for my area (I restrict "area" to 1h travel by local buses):
-I really feel like I would be the only one to show up
-In a small/country town I don't know how people would react. I woul'ndt have any fears in Paris, because "weird" stuff happen all the time and people don't pay a lot of attention. I've already had a photoshoot here (with a camera big enough to look "pro") and people were really stopping and staring, lot's of them asked if it was for TV or wanted to be in the picture, some had unpleasant comments :( . So yes I fear showing up in kimono and having a negative experience.


What would appeal to you regarding an event and make you want to go?
for example I really want to go to japan day in Dusseldorf because it's a big event and I know people will show up.
I don't mind going in kimono to anime convention either...
Yeah I think the "big stuff" are more appealing. I think it's because I'm naturally shy and I tend to feel more confident when I can get "lost in the group" instead of feeling awkward because I don't have conversation /don't know what to say :oops:

If there were an established group in your area (that 2h travel zone), what would encourage you to organize an event (i.e. host, by making the plans and appropriate arrangements) for that group, held closer to your neighbourhood?
If there were a core groupe in France I would probably be part of the group XD but anyway I won't feel confident enough to organize everything. I'd help with little details but I don't have time/confidence to deal with big stuff


As an unpaid organiser, what (as say a group member) do you feel my responsibilities are?
As said before the organiser have to make clear what he will/won't do.
personnaly I will make restaurant/museum reservations if needed but not much more. I feel like people should be responsible of themselves, i.e I won't take a strong leader position.


How would you like to be notified about the events?

I use social network a lot and live on internet but I think emails should be the easiest way for everyone.


[EDIT]
and I totally second what Tahanala said !


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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:54 am 
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Shikomi-san
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Why don't YOU attend meet ups that are within 2 hours of you. (I'm NOT talking when you live 5-6 or more hours away, but if you have a meet up happening withing 2 hours or in your city)

When I choose not to attend an event (kimono-related or otherwise) that is within the 2hr zone, it is because I'm too tired for the adventure, or can't spare the money for transit. It has NEVER been because I'm afraid of not knowing anyone--if the theme is something I am interested in (kimono, steampunk, etc.), not knowing anyone beforehand is NEVER a reason for me not to go. If there is someone there whom I know and have strong feelings against, I will still usually go, because the events are never small enough for their presence to matter. I still manage to have a great time, even if I am riding an anxiety attack for the duration of the event. But I'm very resilient and determined, and used to imperfect situations. I've also been accused of running myself ragged :P

Why don't YOU set up a local meet up at an event near you if you're too far to attend any other events?

Other than Naitsuusha, I don't know anyone "IRL" that is not only curious about kimono and likes wearing them (like my two friends) but also has their own items for a complete ensemble, have studied, etc. That being said, it never really occured to me to "put out feelers" in my local area for folks who are interested--whether they own their own items or not. I suppose I could make some fliers with some jargon that would catch the eyes of those "in-the-know", listing my email account, and see what comes up...If I could find some people who expressed interest and have some (at least basic) knowledge, I would be happy to organize the event. I'm usually the one coordinating events for my close group of friends anyway, so I'm a bit used to it. It gets tiring, but if I could meet even one new kimono friend I would be happy. In my area, I don't have high hopes of creating a large group--just finding kindred spirits, in any number, would be nice.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:03 am 
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Shikomi-san
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I also have almost no problem being out and about in kimono. As long as I'm going to a kimono-related or kimono/costume-appropriate event/party/gather, I feel comfortable enough traveling there in kimono/costume (I take public transit). For a while I was going into the city every weekend in costume, and when I stopped the vendor at the bus station asked me if there were no more events. He was very nice and curious about it, I always get lots of compliments when I'm in kimono or costume on my way to an event, and I live in a smallish town. I've never gotten any negative feedback, but I imagine that if I did it would roll off my shoulder.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:57 am 
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Maiko-san
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I actually am 4 hours from any major city, mines sorta the midway between Sydney and Melbourne, being onnthe border, and traveling that far really dosnt worry me. I've donenit several times via train, this (oops last year now) was the first year in could justify it, because I wasn't in school and could pay fornit because of my 2 jobs, but they were also the kicker, as I worked weekends 90/ ofnthe year, mind I guess otherwise ill probably be one of the permanent staples this year, as I'll be closer and have volunteered to plan events, but I'm hoping to get a few planned closer to other people around the place, Australia is very very big, so that causes it's own problems.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:23 am 
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Minarai-san
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as one of the admins for aus KDJ this has given some food for thought...

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:05 am 
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Maiko-san
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Chiming in late to say: sometimes real life gets in the way. For me it a full-time job which really kicked my butt (my bank account may be happier, but I wound up with a head of grey hair). Plus a slight technical barrier - I didn't have a smart phone until recently, and even now I don't have a data plan.

But after setting up the LA branch of KdJ I felt like I wasn't doing it right via Twitter. What I should have done was reach out to the already well-established group of kimono people who already thrive in LA (the local kimono club, the kitsuke teachers, etc). The downside: I already had a full-time job...

On the plus side, there's tons of events in Los Angeles that are kimono jack-able. It's Obon & Omatsuri season now, followed by Nisei week. LACMA has a retro kimono exhibit. Every weekend in Little Tokyo is potentially an 'event'.

What would appeal to you regarding an event and make you want to go?
-free or under $10? If not, are there enough people to get a group discount?
-schedule?
-accessible location

If there were an established group in your area (that 2h travel zone), what would encourage you to organize an event (i.e. host, by making the plans and appropriate arrangements) for that group, held closer to your neighbourhood?
-timing. I often work weekends now, so I could gather all the details but I may not be able to make the event itself. Does that defeat the purpose?

As an event organizer, the main responsibility is probably outreach. It's almost a part-time job.

How would you like to be notified?
Direct email. Of all the social media I dislike Twitter most. Facebook has become almost a necessary evil at this point. Instagram is best, if I had to choose a social media platform.

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 Post subject: Re: What makes you NOT attend a meet up within 2 hours of yo
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:05 pm 
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Maiko-san
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Interessting, since I this winter totally lost the desire to arrange any meetings.


Why don't YOU attend meet ups that are within 2 hours of you?
I would, I was free.


Why don't YOU set up a local meet up at an event near you if you're too far to attend any other events?
I have or do, but I have had a break, since it takes a lot of enegy, and there is not much support. I have been out alone three or four times. I only know of about three people who might join, but they are not "members" of DenmarkJack, and dont go out like that.

Since there is a big risk, that I will end up alone, I arrange something, where I at least see or do something I like.


What would appeal to you regarding an event and make you want to go?
Almost anything.


As an unpaid organiser, what (as say a group member) do you feel my responsibilities are?
Only be at time and place agreed, that would work for me, if I did not organise it myself

How would you like to be notified about the events?
Mail, or twitter
Twitter is not so popular in Denmark, (as I expirence it) most arrange there events though Facebook, which I not so happy to use.

Getting stressed, to have all that popping up, so I have no connection to any social media on my phone.

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