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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:21 pm 
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Maiko-san
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It's funeral stuff i think. :ermum

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:53 pm 
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Jimae Geiko
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This is just a cute little chart I found: http://www.shimazakura.com/Types_of_Kimono_s/119.htm

It's not the be-all-end-all, but it's good for a quick glance and for standard types of kimono.

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:48 am 
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Maiko-san
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What is the shareobi that chart says can be used with komon and tsumugi? Is it just another name for nagoya obi?

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2009 9:53 am 
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Maiko-san
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I suppose it's oshare without the prettifying o prefix. Oshare means stylish or fashionable. Could be chuuya, tenga, nagoya.

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 9:34 pm 
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Or kobukuro (often the tags just say "oshare obi", which is all mine said). After some discussion in another thread, they're fancier than hanhaba obi, which I guess the term is supposed to refer only to the 'cheapy' kind that come with yukata. A kobukuro ('small pocket') is pretty much the same, but it's got a front and back layer that aren't necessarily the same (the hanhaba obi may be reversible in color, but they're only one layer of fabric, you can't open it up into a pocket). They tend to be embroidered, and may have some celebratory motifs. I think previously they were referred to here as "nice hanhaba". XD


(I was looking up something and reread the thread...hence a late reply.)

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:28 pm 
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Jimae Geiko
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So what is the difference between tenga and kobukuro?

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:37 pm 
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Kobukuro do not have as much gold embroidery (maybe a few small touches of metallic, but that's it), can come without metallic embroidery, don't have to be embroidered at all. They're also usually a bit shorter, and can come in synthetics. I would think of it as a 'hanhaba obi' that's constructed like a fukuro obi - with a 'pocket'. I believe they are the usual hanhaba length, i.e. 3.6m or thereabouts.

One of my favorite obi to wear with my yukata is a kobukuro obi. It's the bright green and yellow monstrosity seen here. It's not embroidered at all, but it's constructed in such a way that theoretically I could open it up. Compared to the obi on my friend next to me, she has just a basic 'yukata'/'hanhaba' obi.

Unfortunately, I do not own a tenga obi.

Tenga obi are usually celebratory themed, and have much more metallic. They're basically like a small fukuro obi (though I believe they usually are patterned full length), and are usually silk. They're also fukuro obi length, so usually over 4 meters. And much more formal - they can be worn with kurotomesode or furisode (in addition to other kimono), whereas a kobukuro shouldn't be. The overall feel is usually more sophisticated than a kobukuro obi. I believe they are usually silk.

They're both "nice", but it's one of those things that I think you really need to see a few to understand, and then the difference is clear, kind of like 'getting' the odori obi/kimono "feeling".

I've searched again and again for pictures, but they're still really hard to come by. I should email my friend with one and ask her for some more information (like if she can measure it, etc) and photos.

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:08 am 
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Maiko-san
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I guess a cotton hitoe obi with the dimensions of a fukuro obi could be used with komons, noncrested tsukesages, noncrested iromujis, and to dress up a nice yukata right? Or could it be approppriate for one-crested tsugesages and iromujis as well?

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:50 am 
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Furisode Shinzo
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ikasan wrote:
Maylinn wrote:
I've seen the item "Kurotomo" obi (bolt) listed on ichiroya, what is that kind of obi?

It's funeral stuff i think. :ermum

Digging this up, cause Ichiroya listed another 'kurotomo' item, which doesn't seem to be funeral wear.

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:51 am 
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Maiko-san
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Quat wrote:
ikasan wrote:
Maylinn wrote:
I've seen the item "Kurotomo" obi (bolt) listed on ichiroya, what is that kind of obi?

It's funeral stuff i think. :ermum

Digging this up, cause Ichiroya listed another 'kurotomo' item, which doesn't seem to be funeral wear.

<pale green bolt with hagi patterns>

I have the wierdest feeling kurotomo refers to something to be worn "with black", i.e. proper for partial mournwear. But put no weight on this.

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 Post subject: Re: :k [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:18 pm 
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Furisode Shinzo
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Peccantis wrote:
I have the wierdest feeling kurotomo refers to something to be worn "with black", i.e. proper for partial mournwear. But put no weight on this.

Searching kurotomo at ichiroya brings up solid black obi roles, and a number of silver/greys, so you're probably close.
I've emailed Ichiro and Yuka-san about it though, so we'll see what they've got to say.

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:22 pm 
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Furisode Shinzo
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Ichiroya wrote:
Hello from Yuka from Ichiroya.

Thank you very much for your inquiry about kurotomo obi.

It was our mistake- as you mentioned only black obi for mofuku are
actually kurotomo and other subdued color obis are for Buddism memrorial
ceremony. We have corrected the information in our website.
Thank you very much for your patience and consideration.

domo arigato gozaimasu for contacting us, we had not have noticed about
the mistake.

dozo yoi ichinichio(we wish you a lovely day)

Ichiro & Yuka Wada
Kimono Flea Market ICHIROYA

And they have indeed relabled the silvery looking bolts as buddhism memorial ceremony.

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:58 pm 
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Furisode Shinzo
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I hope it's ok to ask this here:

I have a fairly informal komon, and I see here that you can wear hanhaba with komon. Since it is a komon, would I have to wear A.) a juban, and/or B.) obi-jime and obi-age? I'm confused as to whether the obi or the kimono denotes the obi-jime/obi-age necessity?

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:12 am 
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You would indeed have to wear a juban - a komon will not hold its shape without one, and you're not wearing it like a yukata, it's just a more casual style. You'd also still wear tabi.

Obijime and obiage are not necessary, but I find a small thin objime can look cute with a hanhaba obi, even if it's not needed.

Here are a few of my outfits pairing komon and slightly dressier hanhaba.
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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:23 am 
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Furisode Shinzo
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Oooo those look lovely! On the topic of tabi, I thought that komon could be worn with geta, which don't need tabi? I have this style of geta, which I've seen with and without tabi; so would it be the kimono or the shoes that denote the tabi necessity? Or is it need juban = need tabi?

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:27 am 
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Generally, unless you're knowingly breaking the rules and having fun doing some crazy hime style, if you're wearing anything other than yukata, you need tabi. In the first outfit, I am wearing black ukon geta and tabi.

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:16 pm 
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Maiko-san
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I was browsing this forum, trying to find out if I can wear any of my beautiful fukuro (like my new rooster one) with komon. Looks like it's a no-no. This is a shame, because I have gotten so big around the bottom that I only own a couple of non-komon kimono that fit. And most of my fancy fukuro don't match them... :(

But I noticed the recurring questions about tenga obi.

I have a fully patterned (both sides) silk "hanhaba" that is 450cm long and 16.5cm wide. Might this be the ever-elusive tenga obi? It sure seems too fancy to be worn with most of my komon. I bought it from ryu a couple of years ago - it was described as "HIGH CLASS HAN HABA OBI".

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:25 pm 
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Maiko-san
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yohmama-san, I think you can wear fukuro obi with komon as long as it's the obi isn't too formal looking (a lot of gold/silver thread, lots of embroidery, etc.) coz it still won't bring the komon higher in formality anyway. After all, Nagoya obi is relatively new.

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:41 pm 
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It certainly might be, yohmama-san. It sounds like it fits the kind of vague criteria - more metallic, fully patterned, constructed like a fukuro, longer, and just more fancy/elegant than a usual hanhaba. A very versatile obi!

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:34 pm 
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So I'm having trouble finding an obi for my peacock tomesode. (The peacock is ebroidered entirely in blue, white, and silver.) I really wanted a silver base obi with a blue pattern, but I'm having great difficulty finding one. So here's my question: when pairing an obi with a tomesode, does the obi have to have a silver or gold base? Because I found this shimmery blue fukuro that I like:
http://www.ichiroya.com/item/list2/187158/

It's just been really frustrating because that peacock tomesode is pretty much the kimono of my dreams. As soon as I saw it, I knew it was "the one". I wish I could find an obi that I am equally exceited about.


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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:19 am 
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Furisode Shinzo
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I think any metallic threading/embroidery/couching/what-have-you is considered formal. I own a formal fukuro with both silver and gold. So, I'd say just go with whatever matches!

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:05 am 
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Maiko-san
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Iyolin wrote:
It certainly might be, yohmama-san. It sounds like it fits the kind of vague criteria - more metallic, fully patterned, constructed like a fukuro, longer, and just more fancy/elegant than a usual hanhaba. A very versatile obi!

"Constructed like fukuro but smaller" reads as kobukuro obi to me. Synonymous to tenga obi?

My kobukuro obi has no metallics, "only" shôchikubai and kikkô -- and my sister's even less than that, with just karagusa patterns. Both were original-labelled as kobukuro obi.

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:59 am 
Shikomi-san
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What kind of obi are acceptable to wear with geiko hikizuri? I heard hakata but all the hakata I see say Hakata nagoya is that correct or am I looking at the wrong thing?


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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:11 am 
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First Mate Boobie-san (Mod)
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Peccantis wrote:
Iyolin wrote:
It certainly might be, yohmama-san. It sounds like it fits the kind of vague criteria - more metallic, fully patterned, constructed like a fukuro, longer, and just more fancy/elegant than a usual hanhaba. A very versatile obi!

"Constructed like fukuro but smaller" reads as kobukuro obi to me. Synonymous to tenga obi?

My kobukuro obi has no metallics, "only" shôchikubai and kikkô -- and my sister's even less than that, with just karagusa patterns. Both were original-labelled as kobukuro obi.


Sorry, didn't see this until now. 10 months late. :oops:

Nope, they're a bit different - tenga obi are still more formal than kobukuro/oshare obi (likely longer and more metallic). I've a few kobukuro, but no tenga. T.T


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What kind of obi are acceptable to wear with geiko hikizuri? I heard hakata but all the hakata I see say Hakata nagoya is that correct or am I looking at the wrong thing?


I'd assume fukuro-size hakata, not hakata nagoya. I'd think any fukuro obi (so long as it's not, say, saki-ori or whatever and is obviously formal enough) would be suitable, as would maru obi. If all you had was hakata nagoya, however, then you wear what you have, right?

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:30 pm 
Shikomi-san
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Well tis the season to buy a new obi so I wanted to find one that I like to wear with my christmas hiki. thank you so much for pointing me in the right direction. Do you know where I should look by any chance?


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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:29 pm 
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Hi all.

I have a question regarding vintage obi that have some metallic threads woven into them. I had previously put this question a very long time ago to Ichiroya and was told that very old obi like chuya that have metallic threads should be worn with vintage kimono or komon. Has anyone seen any reference material to this at all?

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:39 pm 
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I would guess that the construction of a chuuya obi would make it less formal, as not one fabric folded over to be a pocket, but two different fabrics together. I don't know if this applies to vintage, though.

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:19 am 
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Okay, I know I can break the rules because it's a LARP, but I have a question. My character - and I - don't really use an Otaiko Musubi. We wear a different kind of Bunko Musubi, so a Nagoya Obi with an Otaiko design doesn't really work for me and my character.

The problem is, this bolt - at least, that's how I feel - should have a nice gold-colored obi that has a subdued pattern. In honesty, I'm trying to avoid specific seasonal motifs and go for something that's more year-round. Because I have not found any "quiet" Nagoya obis, I was wondering if I should invest in a Chuya Obi?

I know most people wear Chuya to Kabuki Plays, but would a Chuya Obi work with the linked-above Komon fabric? I mean, in honesty, the Kimono will be for informal court, and it is a LARP that most characters won't know the difference, but I still want to be correct.

I could also go with a gold thread and "quiet" Fukuro obi, but I just don't know if a Fukuro Obi would be too formal for a Komon - even a nice fabric Komon...

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:51 pm 
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I personally would say chuuya is fine for komon, as mentioned a few posts above. Fukuro obi would be a no-no formality wise for wearing with komon, as mentioned in the first post, IIRC. Though don't get confused by an obi that's Nagoya obi length but not sewn into the half-width for some portion; I have one of these and it specifically came with my komon. They're shorter than true fukuro but look like one.

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:32 pm 
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Iyolin wrote:
I would guess that the construction of a chuuya obi would make it less formal, as not one fabric folded over to be a pocket, but two different fabrics together. I don't know if this applies to vintage, though.


I just got a book in that has literally blown my mind about obi rules. I will add that I can only read a handful of sets of Hirigana, so I can't translate the title of this book but it does have some pictures that I think will be helpful or incredibly confusing. Case in point, there is an outfit in here that has a tsumugi komon, a nagoya obi with woven gold threads in the pattern, and black geta :? Now that the scans forum is back up ( :lovelove ) I may be posting scans of the whole book soon.

Image
Image
Antique komon with gold wraped thread embroidery

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:51 am 
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Onesan
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That's a lovely outfit, would be very interested to see more scans from teh book! :)

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:26 am 
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Maiko-san
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I second! That book sounds really cool!

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 Post subject: Re: [Knowledge] - Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono
PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:51 am 
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Maiko-san
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I found this link while looking at an obi on Pinterest. WHAT A TREASURE TROVE OF INFO

http://www.kimonoculture.jp/

This website, is in Japanese HOWEVER...it has pictures for what occasion is appropriate for each one of the pieces that they are selling. You do not have to be able to read Japanese to get the meaning of what is going on.

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