Anyone here want to learn japanese?

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Anyone here want to learn japanese?

Post by IG Team » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:50 pm

xx[chii]xx

I was wondering what people thought about starting a thread that aimed to help people pick up the japanese language?.

When I was learning french i found that being exposed to raw language is much much more effective then being taught in a classroom.

It dosent matter what level you consider yourself. You just simply post or reply to what people have earlier posted; whether it simply be 'konnichiwa, hakimemashite!' written in romanji or more complicated sentances using correct grammer. It would also be useful as members could point out mistakes and give advice.

The conversations would have no real purpose or importance, its simply to aid learning and apply your knowledge to real life examples.

What do you think?

(Im also sorry if a post of this nature has arisen before, ive tried searching and i feel really embarrased when i post something already done before!)

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Re: Anyone here want to learn japanese?

Post by IG Team » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:51 pm

James

I started writing out a bunch of stuff, but then I realized that you can easily find that type of thing -- basic greetings, numbers, days of the week, pronunciation guides, basic characters, etc -- everywhere online. Why not post specific questions you'd like answered or sentences you'd like to know how to say or write in Japanese instead?

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Re: Anyone here want to learn japanese?

Post by IG Team » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:52 pm

xx[chii]xx
James wrote:I started writing out a bunch of stuff, but then I realized that you can easily find that type of thing -- basic greetings, numbers, days of the week, pronunciation guides, basic characters, etc -- everywhere online. Why not post specific questions you'd like answered or sentences you'd like to know how to say or write in Japanese instead?
True; there is a bountiful supply of japanese learning aids on the internet, but the point i wanted to make was this thread would take this information and apply it to a real life situation.

Its all good and well memorising phrases off sites, but without taking this knowledge furthur its soon forgotton. Using this thread would mean the information is processed semantically in your brain; making it much easier to recall and less likey to decay over time.

Also; say for example someone replys to your post and uses a work you dont know; you have to look it up in order to reply in turn. Whereas if we came across a word we didnt know when learning a list of phrases we could just ignore it which does not help in the long term.

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Re: Anyone here want to learn japanese?

Post by IG Team » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:52 pm

James

If you want real life conversation, you're going to have to actually talk with people in person. This is no more a "real life situation" than anything else online, really, but to me the idea is far too unfocused and I'm not sure I buy the argument about semantic retention.

At the level of Japanese language ability for which such a thread might be useful, memorization is pretty much key. One thing that helps you remember a given phrase is that phrase having importance or significance for you, thus my suggestion that people could post their questions and things they'd like to know how to say, rather than just posts of random phrases or conversations in Japanese that most people won't be able to follow.

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Re: Anyone here want to learn japanese?

Post by IG Team » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:53 pm

Rahmenhandlung

Generally: go for it!

As for the effectiveness of something like this, I'm guess I'm with James-- I somewhat doubt that it's going to help learners a lot to just write and read; especially when you read things other beginners write, there's bound to be mistakes that you might end up memorising by accident etc etc.

Then there's the whole "writing and reading Japanese" thing-- I for one am opposed to using Latin letters when writing Japanese, mostly because it's NOT hard to memorise 45 Hiragana and if you're serious about the language, you'll have to brave kana and kanji at some point anyway, but also because texts written entirely in Rōmaji (to me) are about as intellligible als texts written in allcaps without punctuation. Plus the entire different-systems-thing -- is 通じる tsuujiru, tuujiru, tuuziru? Tsujiru, tujiru, tuziru? Or do we use an "l" where they've got the "r"?

That said, if this were a thread where beginner-level learners can post their questions and get answers and advanced-level learners post ... whatever, accounts of their day, kimono rants or what do I know in Japanese and get replies from other advanced-level learners ... that might be interesting. :) I've seen it done, and done well, on an international exchange student BBS that way, and with all the kimono enthusiasts on here, it could be great fun.
Post after post of "Hello, my name is _, I'm from _, how are you?", however... not so much.

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Re: Anyone here want to learn japanese?

Post by IG Team » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:53 pm

azusa

So you want to learn Japanese? If I did it over again, this is how I would do it.

Start here.
The Memory Book, by Harry Lorrayne and Jerry Lucas.
http://www.amazon.com/Memory-Book-Class ... 445&sr=8-1


If you really apply yourself with _The Memory Book_, you won't need this second thing, but something like this may be helpful to get you started. My Japanese 1 teacher taught us hiragana in roughly two hours. Those two hours were the first two hours of our Japanese class, the first day. We had a separate lesson about 4 weeks later where we were allowed to use romaji while being taught to type.
8O


Second,

Remembering the Hiragana/Katakana, by James W. Heisig.
http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Kana- ... 497&sr=1-1
or, the newer edition (with poor glue on the binding, I'm told)
Remembering the Kana, by James W. Heisig.
http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Kana- ... 497&sr=1-3

Third,
Remembering the Kanji, by James W. Heisig.
http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Kanji ... 511&sr=1-1

Old Edition (recommended):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087040 ... -4&seller=

This is the one, IMHO, that is the most useful, aside from _The Memory Book_. It takes kanji, applies the principles in _The Memory Book_, and organizes them in an order to make those principles particularly effective. If you can do this book, and really do it, you could be able to write 2,000 kanji in about four or five weeks, and with that memory training, have a huge leg up on memorizing how to read them. Seriously. If I'm not careful, I can lose my car keys three times in ten minutes. I had three concussions in four years. I failed every kanji quiz we had in college. And now I can write more kanji than some of my Japanese friends. You may not think you have a good memory, but you can do this.
(Again, with the recent edition, the glue on the binding is not so great. I would try to get an edition from around 1990 or a bit later - but not any of the ones 2007 onward - that's when the new cover/glue was introduced. Also, it is cheaper.)

Then,
Use this flashcard program, Anki to help you review your Heisig. There is a premade deck for Remembering the Kanji, and I'm pretty sure there are also hiragana/katakana decks, or else you can make them easily. It is a friendly program, and can be used on ipod/iphone/other handheld "smart" devices.
http://ichi2.net/anki/

Next, for grammar:
Genki, published by the Japan Times is a solid textbook that also has an accompanying workbook and audio cds available. If you work through the workbook and cds, you can get a solid base with Japanese. Do not let yourself use the romanized characters in the first few chapters as a crutch.
http://www.amazon.com/Genki-Integrated- ... 858&sr=1-1
(Link is for the first volume; there are two.)

I would recommend doing Heisig first (or at least finishing Part I-II), if you can handle waiting about 4 weeks. Get yourself good study habits. You can use Anki to help you learn all this stuff - learn sentences with the grammar, don't just try to learn grammar points.

If you live near a public university, check out how much auditing a Japanese class (or just taking it!) would cost.

For speaking, finding a "real" Japanese person to talk with is really the way to go. I'd try to find a conversation partner. It may be difficult or impossible to find someone who can do an in-person interaction depending on where you live. If there's a university near you, many of them may have exchange programs with Japanese universities and Japanese students who would not mind being shown around town/fed delicious food in exchange for conversation. Approach them kindly and without too much excitement/overeagerness -- one time I had a guy hanging out of a car hollering at me excitedly did I wanted to be his conversation partner. This was not a pick-up, as he explained later. He actually just was looking for a conversation partner, but I was too scared from that first interaction to go through with it.

If that's not a possibility, there are a few sites online where you can set up skype conversation partners with Japanese people.
Mixxer, through Dickinson University is the one I use and like quite a bit.
http://www.language-exchanges.org/

Local Japanese Clubs or Japan Societies or AJET programs may also have information or contacts you can use.

TL;DR
The Memory Book
http://www.amazon.com/Memory-Book-Class ... 445&sr=8-1

Remembering the Kanji
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087040 ... -4&seller=

Anki (flashcard program)
http://ichi2.net/anki/

Genki I
http://www.amazon.com/Genki-Integrated- ... 858&sr=1-1

Skype Conversation Partner through Mixxer.
http://www.language-exchanges.org/

...And that should get you started with the basics.

And back on topic.
As for having some sort of Japanese thread here...I'd like to see an organized cheat-sheet for kanji and kimono-related terms, but I don't know if this is really the place for a "let's speak in Japanese!" thread. I agree with Rahmenhandlung...maybe if it was a Q&A thing, it'd be fun. But for actual speaking Japanese, it'd probably be more beneficial to do it on a forum where there is a significant number of native Japanese speakers.

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Re: Anyone here want to learn japanese?

Post by IG Team » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:54 pm

azusa

So you want to learn Japanese? If I did it over again, this is how I would do it.

Start here.
The Memory Book, by Harry Lorrayne and Jerry Lucas.
http://www.amazon.com/Memory-Book-Class ... 445&sr=8-1


If you really apply yourself with _The Memory Book_, you won't need this second thing, but something like this may be helpful to get you started. My Japanese 1 teacher taught us hiragana in roughly two hours. Those two hours were the first two hours of our Japanese class, the first day. We had a separate lesson about 4 weeks later where we were allowed to use romaji while being taught to type.
8O


Second,

Remembering the Hiragana/Katakana, by James W. Heisig.
http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Kana- ... 497&sr=1-1
or, the newer edition (with poor glue on the binding, I'm told)
Remembering the Kana, by James W. Heisig.
http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Kana- ... 497&sr=1-3


Third,
Remembering the Kanji, by James W. Heisig.
http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Kanji ... 511&sr=1-1

Old Edition (recommended):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087040 ... -4&seller=

This is the one, IMHO, that is the most useful, aside from _The Memory Book_. It takes kanji, applies the principles in _The Memory Book_, and organizes them in an order to make those principles particularly effective. If you can do this book, and really do it, you could be able to write 2,000 kanji in about four or five weeks, and with that memory training, have a huge leg up on memorizing how to read them. Seriously. If I'm not careful, I can lose my car keys three times in ten minutes. I had three concussions in four years. I failed every kanji quiz we had in college. And now I can write more kanji than some of my Japanese friends. You may not think you have a good memory, but you can do this.
(Again, with the recent edition, the glue on the binding is not so great. I would try to get an edition from around 1990 or a bit later - but not any of the ones 2007 onward - that's when the new cover/glue was introduced. Also, it is cheaper.)

Then,
Use this flashcard program, Anki to help you review your Heisig. There is a premade deck for Remembering the Kanji, and I'm pretty sure there are also hiragana/katakana decks, or else you can make them easily. It is a friendly program, and can be used on ipod/iphone/other handheld "smart" devices.
http://ichi2.net/anki/

Next, for grammar:
Genki, published by the Japan Times is a solid textbook that also has an accompanying workbook and audio cds available. If you work through the workbook and cds, you can get a solid base with Japanese. Do not let yourself use the romanized characters in the first few chapters as a crutch.
http://www.amazon.com/Genki-Integrated- ... 858&sr=1-1
(Link is for the first volume; there are two.)

I would recommend doing Heisig first (or at least finishing Part I-II), if you can handle waiting about 4 weeks. Get yourself good study habits. You can use Anki to help you learn all this stuff - learn sentences with the grammar, don't just try to learn grammar points.

If you live near a public university, check out how much auditing a Japanese class (or just taking it!) would cost.

For speaking, finding a "real" Japanese person to talk with is really the way to go. I'd try to find a conversation partner. It may be difficult or impossible to find someone who can do an in-person interaction depending on where you live. If there's a university near you, many of them may have exchange programs with Japanese universities and Japanese students who would not mind being shown around town/fed delicious food in exchange for conversation. Approach them kindly and without too much excitement/overeagerness -- one time I had a guy hanging out of a car hollering at me excitedly did I wanted to be his conversation partner. This was not a pick-up, as he explained later. He actually just was looking for a conversation partner, but I was too scared from that first interaction to go through with it.

If that's not a possibility, there are a few sites online where you can set up skype conversation partners with Japanese people.
Mixxer, through Dickinson University is the one I use and like quite a bit.
http://www.language-exchanges.org/

Local Japanese Clubs or Japan Societies or AJET programs may also have information or contacts you can use.

TL;DR
The Memory Book
http://www.amazon.com/Memory-Book-Class ... 445&sr=8-1

Remembering the Kanji
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087040 ... -4&seller=

Anki (flashcard program)
http://ichi2.net/anki/

Genki I
http://www.amazon.com/Genki-Integrated- ... 858&sr=1-1

Skype Conversation Partner through Mixxer.
http://www.language-exchanges.org/

...And that should get you started with the basics.

And back on topic.
As for having some sort of Japanese thread here...I'd like to see an organized cheat-sheet for kanji and kimono-related terms, but I don't know if this is really the place for a "let's speak in Japanese!" thread. I agree with Rahmenhandlung...maybe if it was a Q&A thing, it'd be fun. But for actual speaking Japanese, it'd probably be more beneficial to do it on a forum where there is a significant number of native Japanese speakers.

New reply!

YuriKuro, what books are you looking at? Genki is relatively new and pretty good. There is also a workbook and cds you can get.

Rosetta Stone, yeah, it's expensive. But it's good.

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Re: Anyone here want to learn japanese?

Post by IG Team » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:54 pm

cereus

I've taken a lot of language classes throughout high school and college and found them lacking. Interestingly enough when I took private lessons in Russian from a tutor I found her methods brutal but very effective. On the first day that I sat in with her, she just dumped a packet in front of me and began to read it.

I was shocked to say in the least. I had always started language classes learning simple words but the fact that she just started to read the packet was simply mind blowing. After a few weeks I began to understand the language, freakishly enough.

It is best to expose yourself to the raw language as much as possible. I found that the children's read and listen books immensely helpful for Spanish. I learned Japanese through watching tons of anime and listening to the music before I took the classes in high school.

Full time exposure is the way to go in my opinion- if you're into crash course learning of the language. For the more casual learners, yes the high school method is alright, but it puts a huge block on you once you start to advance in the language.

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Re: Anyone here want to learn japanese?

Post by IG Team » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:55 pm

Musashi

Starting properly in October. Theory, Wednesday October 7th, practical part, Thursday October 8th. Conversation also on the 8th. Japanese Writing on the 9th. Basic courses about history and everything else connected to Japan begin on Monday, October 5th.

In 2 years from now I'm supposed to know 2,000 kanji passively (being able to read them), but since I can't learn them without writing them (I tried, can't learn them by just memorizing how they look like and their meaning and different readings, doesn't work with me) I guess I'll know them actively (being able to write them) too.

Still need to get me Nelson. The Langescheidt and the Hadamitzky are good, but I really want the Nelso as well, just in case. And I'm thinking of getting the big, fat Kenkyûsha. Schinzinger is nice, but relatively old already, so not really up to date.

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Re: Anyone here want to learn japanese?

Post by IG Team » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:55 pm

Kisa

My suggestion to learning Japanese coming from someone who took a university beginner course and then up and moved to Japan is to:

1:Learn your Hiragana/Katakana
2: Study grammar grammar grammar (basic sentences in present, past and future tense)
3. Get more basic verb vocab, maybe some kanji if you're inclined
4.Study grammar, grammar and more grammar
5.Watch Anime and then move up to drama and movies.
6. Back to Grammar.

In that order. Anime and Movies I say so you can get the intonation and sentences and vocab in a natural way. Grammar is great but it's not how you speak any more than how we all speak in perfect English grammar. But it's all useless without grammar. Then you end up with me, with a good selection of vocabulary but no way to actually communicate in proper sentences :wink:

It really depends what you want to do: Speak or speak-read-write. Speaking is easy enough to just learn by memorization but you can only go so far with that.

To be honest, any book will be fine because you're not actually in japan speaking to people and the grammar/vocab is all equally badly out of date compared to contemporary vocab--hence why you should watch dramas and movies if you can sit through them.

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Re: Anyone here want to learn japanese?

Post by IG Team » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:56 pm

Franzeska

There are plenty of sites online where you can either pay for lessons or get free help with Japanese from native speakers. Lang-8 is probably the most helpful of the free ones: you blog in Japanese and native speakers correct your posts.

For grammar, I recommend either getting an intro textbook (Genki, Nakama, Minna no Nihongo, Yookoso, Japanese for Busy People, etc.) or going to Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese Grammar.

(I have no opinion one way or another about a thread here, but if people are worried about picking up bad habits from other students, I recommend sites like lang-8.)

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Re: Anyone here want to learn japanese?

Post by IG Team » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:57 pm

Haruo

http://www.yookoso.com/

If you want to learn kanji, you can sign up for a kanji-a-day email here. I like it because it has all the information on the kanji: radical, stroke order (with a gif!), and pronunciation. Then there's the definition of the kanji, along with various compounds. That is, if the kanji for the day was 和, you'd see ワ and やわ.らぐ as and 和服 (Japanese clothes), 平和 (peace), etc. You can also sign up for grammer emails, but imho, those aren't always so good. Some are worded funny and don't sound right. Also, because it's user driven, there's lots of discussion as to what's right/wrong/etc. But if you're just learning because you want to, go for it! For those studying for the JLPT, this is good, because you can fine tune it to send you only what you need, ie if you're JLPT 2, you can only have JLPT 1 and 2 sent to you.

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Re: Anyone here want to learn japanese?

Post by IG Team » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:57 pm

healing_mystic

I'm learning Japanese too. I don't have enough money to study at the local college and I didn't like rosetta stone when I tried it. And I hope I'm not out of line "promoting" this product. It's not my product and I get nothing for saying anything about it. But there's this awesome guy Koichi who has come up with an online textbook because he was always asked "Koichi what should I use to study Japanese?" and he never liked any of the answers he gave, so he created his own online text book. And he utilizes youtube and shows you all kinds of different free stuff to aid in your studies. I have only just signed up for his forever membership and I am taking my time so I make sure I get it right. But you can view for free "season 1" which is learning hiragana and basic pronunciation. But he has a monthly fee if you can't afford the forever membership but if you're in it for the long haul the forever would be the best. I really like so far how he has it set up and would highly recommend this for beginners who can't afford to take a class yet. And it's really for beginners, and he's updating it all the time adding new lessons. So like I said right now it's just for beginners and hopefully one day it'll start to get more advanced. And finally please this isn't my company this is just a big fan of new innovative ideas and I'm not a good learner but I'm having a really easy time with this program.

Koici's Youtube he's got some crazy stuff on there definitely should pop over and watch him.

And here's his textbook
Textfugu Online textbook

Oh and here's he Japanese blog lots of interesting articles about Japan
Tofugu.com

p.s. what I love about him is he's very humble. For his program if you don't like it he will refund you 110% (the 10% you have to write up how things could be different) and he will help you find something that might be more helpful. He's a great guy.

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Re: Anyone here want to learn japanese?

Post by kumasan » Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:28 pm

- I would like to learn. I'm learning Hiragana right now. Tough stuff, but I'd like to extend my knowledge past video game vocabulary.

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