[Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

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[Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:32 am

NAME: CLAW789

Is it ok to wear a ... to ... ?

X means no.  O means yes.  A ^Triangle^ means maybe.

Image
Translated from Utsukushiikimono.

This list is by no means encompassing, but it should answer a lot of questions on kimono-wearing in Japan.  It's up to you to decide if pertinent. I'd like to point out that an iromuji or nice komon is probably the most versatile piece for this list of events. The least versatile? Kurotomesode.

Notes:
Tsumugi (pongee) is a serious category. Could be a recent trend 'cuz I don't remember it being as emphasized five-ten years ago (during the meisen craze).  Shima is 'stripes', muji is 'plain' or monochrome.  Tea party is 'o-cha-kai', Practice means kitsuke practice probably.  Graduation ceremony also includes school entrance ceremonies & escorting/chaperon(e) - I don't think it's for graduates, but rather relatives, teachers, well-wishers...

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:33 am

NAME: IYOLIN

The "triangle" is common in Japan to mean it's an ok answer, but not the best. That's for the "O".  So it's better to wear one that's got a "O" next to it, but if you don't have that type of kimono, it's ok to wear the one with a "triangle".

Thank you for sharing as well! There's some soudou charts I keep meaning to translate but haven't gotten around to doing yet. Once I do, I'll add them here!


Practice might mean anything from Kitsuke practice to dance or music lesson practice (like koto or shamisen or something). Seems to work with what I've seen from my limited dance lessons. Would it follow for tea ceremony practice, too? I've never gone, so I don't recall what others said they wear for lessons.

I imagine for kitsuke practice you wear what you have; furisode would be ok if you were learning to wear that (but most women who get interested in kimono are past furisode age anyway). We had the range in my class, from kurotomesode (when someone was preparing for a wedding) down to yukata.

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:33 am

NAME: CHAMEKKE
claw789 wrote:Tsumugi (pongee) is a serious category. Could be a recent trend 'cuz I don't remember it being as emphasized five-ten years ago (during the meisen craze).  Shima is 'stripes', muji is 'plain' or monochrome.  Tea party is 'o-cha-kai', Practice means kitsuke practice probably.  Graduation ceremony also includes school entrance ceremonies & escorting/chaperon(e) - I don't think it's for graduates, but rather relatives, teachers, well-wishers...
I've seen my tea sensei wear a very elegant muji tsumugi to a tea demonstration. Tsumugi is usually more casual, but obviously the solid colour kicks it up a notch in the formality department! Interesting that muji tsumugi gets its own category here.

Women usually wear more formal kimono for "tea parties" (ochakai), that's for sure. (Except for kurotomesode, as your list mentions. My sensei once told me, very emphatically, do not buy kurotomesode for tea purposes! )

In my experience, women usually wear komon for tea practice (okeiko). My guess is that "practice" here refers to instructional lessons in such things as tea, ikebana, koto and so forth - although I suppose kitsuke practice could be included too!

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:34 am

NAME: IYOLIN

Iyolin - To me the X/O/triangle didn't needed translating when I made the chart, but the Yes/No/Maybe was to head off any questions in posting. Of course, the distinction between Good/OK/Not so Good is so subtle. Never saw a tringle on my Japanese-corrected papers though.

I do have one more chart from the same issue about materials to wear during each month. Only half-translated.

Yes, they used o-keiko for practice. But most people don't dress themselves in furisode, right? It's always dressing a dummy or another person. I'm thinking furisode are designed so that a girl cannot (or should not) dress alone.

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:34 am

NAME: IYOLIN
seoulstar74 wrote: I'm confused about one part, though. It says that furisode are not appropriate for grauduation ceremony. What do girls wear to graduation then?
I think this chart is more for those who are attending the graduation ceremony, not those who are actually graduating.


claw789 wrote:Iyolin - To me the X/O/triangle didn't needed translating when I made the chart, but the Yes/No/Maybe was to head off any questions in posting. Of course, the distinction between Good/OK/Not so Good is so subtle.  Never saw a tringle on my Japanese-corrected papers though.
I never got triangles on my Japanese-marked papers, either. It was either right or wrong. I learned about it only when I started marking papers in Japan for English classes. Sometimes there's an answer that's ok, but it's not the best answer or the one they're supposed to be using.

Example:
Answer the question: "What are your hobbies?"
Triangle answer: "My hobby is reading."  (It's ok because it's an answer and grammatically correct, but the point was to have +1 hobbies in the sentence)
Maru/Circle answer: "My hobbies are reading and sewing."

I remember getting my first test back in Japanese, and spazzing when it was full of circles! Only afterward did we realize that the circles were good things, and not circling mistakes, like we do in Canada (or at least, like I've had experience with).

/reminiscing about Japan  *sigh*

Agreed that the differences can be very subtle, and sometimes only those who have studied for years can tell the difference or know when it's ok or how to make the outfit more acceptable.  I always feel as if there's so much more to learn!

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:35 am

NAME: MOONBLOSSOM

I've seen some tsukesage that almost look like sparse komon, to me.


This one, for example (which I was planning to bid on but forgot cause I'm a dumbass!)


It really doesn't feel terribly formal to me at all, especially if it were paired up with a simple nagoya obi in a muted colour. I suspect they meant things like this, moreso than say something like this one with the bright colour and gold embroidery.

(edit to fix wonky link)

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:35 am

NAME: KOTONE
shira wrote:Actually, when I first read "Casual" and "Formal" tsukesage/houmongi, I thought that they meant a tsukesage/houmongi that they dressed down (i.e. with nagoya obi) for casual and one that they dressed up with a fukuro obi for formal.  :unsure:
I was thinking that that's maybe part of it.  But, I was also thinking maybe with mon and un-mon.  But, I still can't get my visual to think of tsukesage as anything less than semi-formal or formal.
The reason I ask is I want to buy a bolt from ichiroya - which I think on that thread someone said it was about $140-$180 for hitoe? - because, my boyfriend is thinking, now, about going to Japan for a year... damned loop holes... any way, he's thinking of graduating from TUFS in Tokyo.

(If I don't sound enthused about it, as horrible as it is to say, I'm not.)

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:36 am

NAME: SHINOBU

I thought it had to do with crests, but I don't really know. I've always kind of thought of my tsukesage as "casual" tsukesage since it's un-crested...it's this one (I'm sorry I haven't saved Ryujiro's photos). The material is synthetic, and there is some gold dye in the pattern but it strikes me as "modern" rather than "formal" (if that makes sense).

Of course, I still treat it as my formal kimono ;) but I'd imagine it's about as casual as a tsukesage can be.

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:37 am

NAME: THE_PALE_LADY

Hay I am trying put together a ensamble for my husband to wear to the local renessance festival with me. But I was not sure If it would me more approprate for him to wear casual with just a haori over his kimono or would it be more approprate for him to wear hakama as well.

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:37 am

NAME: BEBEMOCHI

Haha, at a Renn Fest, I think anything goes. After all, you don't see the folks who wear Western clothes limiting themselves by time period, temperature, formality, propriety, or even reality. ;)

To answer your question, though, a kimono with a haori and without hakama is appropriate for casual events, like parties or dinners out. It's probably also acceptable to wear just a kimono and obi, if the weather is hot. Of course, if the weather dictates, a yukata would be more than appropriate for a Renn Fest, since yukata are specifically summer festival wear.

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:38 am

NAME: IYOLIN
Chiisana Hato wrote:
Shinobu wrote:I thought it had to do with crests, but I don't really know.
I think houmongi and tsukesage are never crested. I own several "casual" and one that is covered in silver work - no crests on any of them.

Question, aren't houmongi by definition kinda traveling outfits as you are going to visit relatives or friends in your best "visiting kimono"?

I'm pretty sure houmongi can be crested; probably tsukesage, too, but I haven't saved any pictures, so I can't provide any proof. I'll try to keep my eyes open next time I shop ebay or something.

Re:houmongi - are you referring to the last column, which is "travel"? Since the kimono listed are all relatively informal, I assumed travel to mean something like, taking the shinkansen to or from Tokyo [or elsewhere], or going out for a drive to see the leaves change, or taking a several-hour bus ride - something like that. More along the lines of actually spending significant time traveling as opposed to going somewhere to visit someone for something in particular for a short time (like a stop by for tea or whatever).

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:38 am

NAME: CHIISANO HATO
Tahanala wrote:I do have crested tsukesage, and even crested edo-komon. However, I don't have any pictures to provide, sorry!
I knew edos come crested. I think this makes them more appropriate for tea, though the regular edo I think would get the triangle mark. lol

It would be interesting to know if there are any rules to when tsukesages and houmongis are crested or if it is just personal or artistic preference. Maybe if the owner bought it for a family occasion like a wedding it comes crested. If bought for a formal party etc., maybe no crests?

Cause like I said I own the one of the most elaborately decorated houmongis I've ever seen and there is not even one crest.

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:39 am

NAME: IYOLIN
Nepthys wrote:
onnagata wrote:I do not know if I have seen right, but I watched an enka video where the female shamisen players all wore kurotomesode.
I know for formal performances, it's not uncommon to see western orchestra members in tails and gowns. Could this be similar?

I believe it's the same sort of thing. Performers often dress quite formally; for example, I've seen a gentleman play Tsugaru Shamisen in the middle of winter (Feb) outside in black crested kimono and striped hakama. I've heard from lt.dead as well that when she performed shakuhachi, the men were in very formal wear.

I don't think it always holds true, though; I've seen several pictures of koto players in iromuji (mostly pink), not kurotomesode. I don't know if it's instrument specific, venue related, or up to the performer.

But I think it is related to the same thing, yes. Kurotomesode are sometimes worn for performances in addition to weddings.

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:39 am

NAME: BAI_MIANXI

For what it's worth...

The Japanese Consulate in Atlanta held a reception for the emperor's birthday (a few weeks back). Details of why I was there are largely irrelevant (or at least, ought to be saved for a separate post). Of the Japanese ladies present, I remember
  • Two fairly young women in furisode,

    Three to five women in houmongi or very high-formality tsukesage,

    One lady in what looked like komon, but could easily have been tsukesage-komon,

    At least two older ladies in kurotomesode, one wearing formal fukuro, one a black-and-white hakata,

    One older lady in iromuji, wearing a nagoya obi she embroidered herself,

    One young and avant-garde lady in (vintage?) shibori komon, worn short to show red patent-leather high heels, but with han-eri and date-eri in three or four layers
The two ladies in kurotomesode are both nihon buyo dancers, by the way. Not sure it makes a difference, except perhaps the hakata-with-kuro style.

I'd never been to this event before, but as a careful student of every TPO chart available on the internet (my thanks to Claw789 and others), I wore one-crest iromuji with a fairly formal nagoya obi in otaiko musubi. (The Kimono Duet outfit.) Houmongi was clearly the most-appropriate common denominator, but the socially-acceptable range was pretty wide.

--Bai "field researcher" Mianxi

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:40 am

NAME: KOTONE

I just talked to my friend today about the issue of wearing tsumugi -
She wants to take Andrew to tea ceremony when he's in Japan. She wants him to wear kimono etc. I told her my concern is that Andrew's Oshima tsumugi I bought him isn't formal enough. Her response "Oshima tsumugi is ok. Really, not many Japanese care so much about wearing or not wearing tsumugi places."
*Coming from a 22 yr old girl who's mother was/is a certified kitsuke teacher, grandmother was a certified nihon buyou teacher, and she herself teaches tea ceremony.*

http://www.rakuten.co.jp/wamonoya/663712/

^^found another TPO chart

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:40 am

NAME: AUBERGINEFLEUR
Kotone wrote:I just talked to my friend today about the issue of wearing tsumugi -
She wants to take Andrew to tea ceremony when he's in Japan. She wants him to wear kimono etc. I told her my concern is that Andrew's Oshima tsumugi I bought him isn't formal enough. Her response "Oshima tsumugi is ok. Really, not many Japanese care so much about wearing or not wearing tsumugi places."
*Coming from a 22 yr old girl who's mother was/is a certified kitsuke teacher, grandmother was a certified nihon buyou teacher, and she herself teaches tea ceremony.*
Andrew should be fine in tsumugi. It is much more acceptable for men, and even perhaps the norm of kimono for men.

Most people are clueless about tsumugi, and there are even tsumugi houmongi of all things! I would think that one would only need to take heed about wearing tsumugi in Kyoto, and even then only if around people knowledgeable about kimono. For Omote-senke tea, tsumugi is also unacceptable, but it would be rare to attend an event of this school. I don't even think they have public events for non-members.

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:41 am

NAME: BAI_MIANXI
Bai Mianxi wrote:For what it's worth...

The Japanese Consulate in Atlanta held a reception for the emperor's birthday (a few weeks back). Details of why I was there are largely irrelevant (or at least, ought to be saved for a separate post). Of the Japanese ladies present, I remember
  • Two fairly young women in furisode,

    Three to five women in houmongi or very high-formality tsukesage,

    One lady in what looked like komon, but could easily have been tsukesage-komon,

    At least two older ladies in kurotomesode, one wearing formal fukuro, one a black-and-white hakata,

    One older lady in iromuji, wearing a nagoya obi she embroidered herself,

    One young and avant-garde lady in (vintage?) shibori komon, worn short to show red patent-leather high heels, but with han-eri and date-eri in three or four layers
The two ladies in kurotomesode are both nihon buyo dancers, by the way. Not sure it makes a difference, except perhaps the hakata-with-kuro style.
Follow-up: I've seen the lady in the komon that could have been tsukesage-komon since then, and a) the kimono is komon, and b) she is also a dancer, and wore it to dance the day I saw her. It's dawned on me that the dancers might have performed earlier in the afternoon on the emperor's birthday. That might throw off the TPO for any or all of those ladies.

--Bai

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:41 am

NAME: SHINOBU

This chart really is great. I seem to consult it all the time. :)

I was thinking, would it be possible to find/anyone knowledgeable to give some advice about what obi to wear for what occasion? I know there is a "Correct Obi To Be Worn With Each Kimono" thread in the Knowledge bank as well, but since kimono usually go with several kinds of obi...it would be nice to know where the choice of obi pushes the formality of a kimono, and for what occasions the combination is suitable. Then again, I guess this is far less clear-cut :unsure: so it probably wouldn't be possible to have a similar chart or anything...oh well, just an idea :oops:

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:42 am

NAME: BEBEMOCHI

Just thought I'd add this little chart: http://www.shimazakura.com/Which_Kimono ... _s/118.htm

It's not the be-all-end-all, but it does take a different approach in determining which kimono would be best for which occasion, which is to start with the event and then decide on the kimono.

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:42 am

NAME: PASSIONFRUIT ADDICT

I found another chart concerning the Kimono's occasion formality. For women and men.
Formality (Kaku) of Kimono and Obi

It come from the site KIDORAKUJapan, which this thread is speaking: New kimono website

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:47 am

NAME: JAMES

That's interesting because it seems to be suggesting that men can wear heko obi with informal kimono as well as yukata.

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:47 am

NAME: SPIRIT OF THE WINDS

Wow, that cleared a lot on my mind. I was thinking about my furisode and if I could wear it for semi-formal dinners/parties. I guess I can if it's a triangle. Thanks for sharing!

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:47 am

NAME: MAIKOFAN128

would it be ok to wear tsukesage to a tea party if I'm 30, single and look 21 (or 14 for US)? That puzzles me because in theory tsukesage is for married women and I should wear furisode for any occasion right?

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:48 am

NAME: GIKUYU

Tsukesage would be a very nice choice ^^ since its not as formal as a houmongi.. Outside Japan you can be quite a bit .more flexible with the rules though ^^

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:48 am

NAME: GIKUYU
muhvi wrote:I don't think tsukesage is for married women only, I believe this goes only for kurotomesode.
I thought that aswell,, then houmongu would be for married women aswell?

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:48 am

NAME: SAKURA_BLOSSOM

A long time ago, single women would have only worn furisode. But now, furisode is relegated to ceremonial occasions only. A single woman would be ok to wear tsukesage or houmongi for a more formal occasion.

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:49 am

NAME: MAIKOFAN128

And about furisode, can I even wear it? I mean, going by tradition, I'm single but older even though I look younger. Furisode is beautiful obviously and I really like the vivid patterns on them. I always wonder if I'm too old for them and if should go for kimono appropiate for my actual age or the age I look. I worry about looking childish or like a child playing with her mother's clothes (which is how I feel I look with a western suit any way).

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Re: [Knowledge] Occasions for Kimono

Post by IG Team » Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:49 am

NAME: SAKURA_BLOSSOM

Traditionally, women over 25 - regardless if they are still single - will retire their furisode. But that being said, if you're not in Japan, you can take a little license and wear it if you like. I'm getting married very soon, but I probably won't get rid of all my furisode. I even know a Japanese woman who is well into her thirties that still wears furisode because she loves them. IMO, you should wear it if you like. :)

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